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So I was think of making a Deathgaurd army i was think 1850 and I want to use typhus and plague marines

You want to base a list around Typhus. Try 2x LR, 2x Termies, Typhus and as many plague marines and dreads as you can fit in.


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Try

HQ

Typhus-225

Elites

4x Termies, 4x combi-melta, chainfist-155
5x Termies, 5x combi-melta, chainfist-190

Troops

7x Plague marines, 2x meltagun, Rhino-202?
7x Plague marines, 2x meltagun, Rhino-202?
7x Plague marines, 2x flamer, Rhino-192?

Heavy Support

LR-250?
LR-250?

Question mark by the things im not sure of the points. That could be the core of your army.

yeah but I really do not like dreadnaughts they are to random

laudley wrote:yeah but I really do not like dreadnaughts they are to random

Could take a vindicator or some more plague marines.

are oblitator any good?

If you're making a deathguard army...they don't use transports as they're generally a foot slogging army I believe...but don't do that because mechanized armies are the way to go

Do you have to run Typhus? He kind of sucks for his points cost. He can be instant deathed which sucks when you sink 225 points into one model that can be killed by an unsaved str 8 or higher weapon. There are a LOT of those weapons in the current meta. I would have to suggest either a DP with Wings, MoN, and Warptime or a Chaos Sorc with MoN, and WoC. Even a Greater Daemon is good if you have a squad with an Icon that can deliver this big guy and strong support quickly.

Please don't be another CSM player that thinks Obliterators are the only heavy support option. To be honest, I would lean toward other things. Vindicators with possession and Havoc Launcher upgrades work extremely well with Nurgle armies. Havocs are also very strong. 4 Autocannons put out a lot of dakka, or they can take some HF's and burn horde armies with ease. I think the LR's could help if you use them to transport your PM's if you remove 2 rhinos from a squad and put them in that hard shell. Don't forget that you have free Deep Strikes if your squad has an Icon. Ride your Plague Marines in a LR, then when you need to Deep Strike within six inches of your Land Raider (If your squad is still in it) and you don't scatter at all. Lastly, Dakka preds are pretty nice for chewing up chunks of squads. You get an auto cannon, HB sponsons, Havoc Launcher, and extra armour for 130 points. Or you could just use them for Lascannons with Lascannon sponsons.

Your Terminator squads layout could be improved in my opinon. You may want to remove one Combi-Weapon out of each squad and replace it with Heavy Flamers. At 5 points they're a steal. Totally up to you and what you play against though.

The Plague Marines layout I don't really care for. They can be drastically improved if you're given a champ with a PF. Those squads will just get tied up by MC's and Walkers. Atleast with a PF, you have a chance to eliminate one of those threats when they pounce on you.
My plague marine squads look like this:
Squad 1 7x (2x Meltagun, PF, Icon, Combi-Melta, Rhino) 271 pts
Squad 2 7x (2x Meltagun, PF, Icon, Combi-Melta, Rhino) 271 pts
Squad 3 7x PM (2x Plasmaguns, PF, Combi-Flamer, Rhino) 281 pts

Squad 1 goes tank hunting. Squad 3 runs in and purges an objective, claims it as their own, then shoots down things with bolters and plasma. As enemies approach, rapid-fire them usually rips their resolve. Squad 2 can either aid Squad 1 with gunning down tanks or help out squad 3 if that objective just can't be claimed.

Lesser Daemons are great if you have fast Icon carriers to bring these guys to the fight FAST.

Don't understimate the Fast Attack options of the CSM codex either. Bikers with MoN are very durable. Toughness 4(6) if given MoN, 3+ armour save, and a 3+ cover save if you turbo-boost. They can also be extremely fast Icons for your deepstriking units. Raptors can also be pretty good with 2x Meltaguns, and a champ with a PF, plus the MoN. Run them in big squads to make the expensive mark worth it.

I don't want to tell you how to play and what units to take, but I hope that this helps you with YOUR army.

Alright, I'm going to have to step in here I see.

1) Fluff - Death guard are not solely foot-slogging. If you read the fluff carefully it clearly says that they have transports/vehicles/all types of units and armor. They favor terminators/csms/plague marines because mortarion believed in a constantly moving swarm of infantry supported with vehicles but if the vehicles stopped moving they would continue on no matter what. Death guard are the chosen of nurgle, and nurgle is great at keeping otherwise broken down things working by using daemonic possession. The death guard flagship the terminus est is held together in this way, and many of their still-working vehicles are possessed as well. However, they also have plenty of vehicles that are simply well-maintained but rusted/worn and could fall apart if that maintenance is stopped (or possibly even if it continues).
Summary: Take anything you want, but I would try to focus on infantry. Anyone that tells you death guard cannot have vehicles didn't read the fluff carefully enough.

2) Transport- Land raiders imo are a huge waste of points aside from terminators (which I would probably try to deep strike if possible). They cost an entire squad of csms/pm for better defense vs a 35pt rhino to get your squad where they need to go on the cheap. With enough rhinos/vehicles they will not be able to stop them all, or stop them quickly enough to matter. You could also go for an entirely foot-slogging army which also has its benefits (effectively wasting any anti-vehicle weapons your enemy takes).

3) Plague marines - They work well with plasma because of their FNP rule + 5T, I wouldnt take only plasma but a fair mix of melta/plasma. I think the math works in favor of plague marines shooting instead of charging as well, so if you run into a situation where you can choose to either assault or shoot, choose shooting and then your blight grenades will take the bite out of next turn's assault, if there are any enemies left after that withering fire. Plague marines should be used to draw fire, tie up units, and wittle down anything that gets in their way. Very little can kill them and if your enemy is spending his big guns to take down your PM's that works in your favor anyway.

4) Hammer and Anvil - Higher toughness units (ie PM's) are your anvils and probably the best anvils in the game, but make sure you bring a hammer. I prefer: 6-8 raptors (/w champ), IoK/IoN, 2x meltas, champ with PF or LCs led by chaos lord /w wings, MoN/MoK, and daemon weapon. Provides an extremely fast vicious unit to take down key units or to counter-charge once your PMs are engaged. Btw, you may think IoK is sacriliege in DG but you can add some fluff about a squad of night lord raptors that were corrupted by nurgle , use your imagination. Another idea might be a squad of terminators(see below), chosen(possibly /w bloodthirster to drop in), bikers, etc. Your defensive PM core will take hits and keep on going and do plenty of damage on their own, but don't forget offense as well is my point.

5) Typhus - Expensive, term armor limits his transport, and can be Insta-killed. Losing a 200+ pt unit like that is painful when you could have taken a full squad of something instead. He can be very effective if you can get him into range, don't forget that, but if he dies before then he is completely wasted points. A relatively cheap chaos lord/sorc with the proper equipment can be an effective leader, a strong fighter, and not focus a huge amount of points on one model that your enemy will undoubtedly be targeting.

6) Terminators - Another bread and butter unit fluff-wise for death guard. I personally have mixed feelings about terminators, but they really can be an effective unit if equipped and played properly, The best advice I can give is to think about what you want them to do (ie Deep strike in close and hammer units in assault, or tank-hunting, or foot slogging behind PMs to counter-charge when the PMs encounter the enemy, etc) and equip them only for that goal. Also always consider if you would be better served by the same points in regular CSMs or plague marines, and sometimes you will be.
Ideas for assault: 5x terminator champions , IoK, and lightning claws for all. Gives you 25 attacks on the charge that ignore armor and re-roll any wounds that fail to wound. Deep strike them in close to any kind of infantry and watch the mayhem. Could also use one term to wield a heavy flamer + power/chain fist. Point cost: 280 . Some like termicide but I like a beefier squad if I'm going to spend the points.

7) Heavy Support - My recommendation? 1-2 squads of havocs and 1-3 oblits. Give the havocs autocannons (2 av13 killing long range decent ap shots for cheap) or a mix of ac + mls (mls for versatility against meq/horde). The oblits are there in smaller numbers to fill in any holes you might have in your weaponry (ie more horde than expected, swap to plasma cannons). Taking all oblits like some people do is a really bad idea. You could also take some defilers(reaper AC)/preds (dakka) but it is really personal choice and playstyle. I like havocs because they produce massive amounts of good shots for cheap and are relatively mobile and cannot be taken down by one melta/las shot.

Halsfield wrote:Alright, I'm going to have to step in here I see.

1) Fluff - Death guard are not solely foot-slogging. If you read the fluff carefully it clearly says that they have transports/vehicles/all types of units and armor. They favor terminators/csms/plague marines because mortarion believed in a constantly moving swarm of infantry supported with vehicles but if the vehicles stopped moving they would continue on no matter what. Death guard are the chosen of nurgle, and nurgle is great at keeping otherwise broken down things working by using daemonic possession. The death guard flagship the terminus est is held together in this way, and many of their still-working vehicles are possessed as well. However, they also have plenty of vehicles that are simply well-maintained but rusted/worn and could fall apart if that maintenance is stopped (or possibly even if it continues).
Summary: Take anything you want, but I would try to focus on infantry. Anyone that tells you death guard cannot have vehicles didn't read the fluff carefully enough.

2) Transport- Land raiders imo are a huge waste of points aside from terminators (which I would probably try to deep strike if possible). They cost an entire squad of csms/pm for better defense vs a 35pt rhino to get your squad where they need to go on the cheap. With enough rhinos/vehicles they will not be able to stop them all, or stop them quickly enough to matter. You could also go for an entirely foot-slogging army which also has its benefits (effectively wasting any anti-vehicle weapons your enemy takes).

3) Plague marines - They work well with plasma because of their FNP rule + 5T, I wouldnt take only plasma but a fair mix of melta/plasma. I think the math works in favor of plague marines shooting instead of charging as well, so if you run into a situation where you can choose to either assault or shoot, choose shooting and then your blight grenades will take the bite out of next turn's assault, if there are any enemies left after that withering fire. Plague marines should be used to draw fire, tie up units, and wittle down anything that gets in their way. Very little can kill them and if your enemy is spending his big guns to take down your PM's that works in your favor anyway.

4) Hammer and Anvil - Higher toughness units (ie PM's) are your anvils and probably the best anvils in the game, but make sure you bring a hammer. I prefer: 6-8 raptors (/w champ), IoK/IoN, 2x meltas, champ with PF or LCs led by chaos lord /w wings, MoN/MoK, and daemon weapon. Provides an extremely fast vicious unit to take down key units or to counter-charge once your PMs are engaged. Btw, you may think IoK is sacriliege in DG but you can add some fluff about a squad of night lord raptors that were corrupted by nurgle , use your imagination. Another idea might be a squad of terminators(see below), chosen(possibly /w bloodthirster to drop in), bikers, etc. Your defensive PM core will take hits and keep on going and do plenty of damage on their own, but don't forget offense as well is my point.

5) Typhus - Expensive, term armor limits his transport, and can be Insta-killed. Losing a 200+ pt unit like that is painful when you could have taken a full squad of something instead. He can be very effective if you can get him into range, don't forget that, but if he dies before then he is completely wasted points. A relatively cheap chaos lord/sorc with the proper equipment can be an effective leader, a strong fighter, and not focus a huge amount of points on one model that your enemy will undoubtedly be targeting.

6) Terminators - Another bread and butter unit fluff-wise for death guard. I personally have mixed feelings about terminators, but they really can be an effective unit if equipped and played properly, The best advice I can give is to think about what you want them to do (ie Deep strike in close and hammer units in assault, or tank-hunting, or foot slogging behind PMs to counter-charge when the PMs encounter the enemy, etc) and equip them only for that goal. Also always consider if you would be better served by the same points in regular CSMs or plague marines, and sometimes you will be.
Ideas for assault: 5x terminator champions , IoK, and lightning claws for all. Gives you 25 attacks on the charge that ignore armor and re-roll any wounds that fail to wound. Deep strike them in close to any kind of infantry and watch the mayhem. Could also use one term to wield a heavy flamer + power/chain fist. Point cost: 280 . Some like termicide but I like a beefier squad if I'm going to spend the points.

7) Heavy Support - My recommendation? 1-2 squads of havocs and 1-3 oblits. Give the havocs autocannons (2 av13 killing long range decent ap shots for cheap) or a mix of ac + mls (mls for versatility against meq/horde). The oblits are there in smaller numbers to fill in any holes you might have in your weaponry (ie more horde than expected, swap to plasma cannons). Taking all oblits like some people do is a really bad idea. You could also take some defilers(reaper AC)/preds (dakka) but it is really personal choice and playstyle. I like havocs because they produce massive amounts of good shots for cheap and are relatively mobile and cannot be taken down by one melta/las shot.

As always Halsfield is pretty much on the ball.

My personal experience with Typhus; do not run him in smaller games. Hes a great looking unit, and the concept behind him is, quite frankly, bad ass. But the fact he can get one shot limits him greatly, and the fact hes strength 4 (for 225 points?! are you kidding me >< is pretty lame. Yeah, hes got a force weapon he can use on everything... but when he can't wound some of the harder stuff its a moot point (fex's, wraithlords, etc.)

If your gonna run terms (with Death Guard love), run a lotta combi-meltas and heavy flamers, and maybe a chainfist in each squad. Also if your making em Nurgle they aren't so bad for deep striking as opposed to other marks. I love running dual lightning claw slanesh termis because they can down 7-8 marines before getting attacked back, which will almost always cause a rout. But if your goin for fluffwise, yeah.

heavies, Halsfield had it on the ball.

For your PM's meltas and plasmas are about the ONLY way to run em. Plasma guns are INSANELY good on them. So good, in fact, I run 2 units with em usually (its the best response to MC's in the game IMO). Personally I also pack some flamers in there some games. Eldar, Nids, Orcs, IG hate well placed flamers (TAKE THAT RANGERS!).

Those are just the things I'd like to add, Halsfield knows way more than me fluffwise (I just know what little is in the codex), I just know gamingwise

Thanks for the kind words Zid but you give good advice too. As far as fluff I'm just going by what is in their chapter approved story (found in WD or index astartes) that gives mortarion's story and the basics of the death guard's strategy and chapter make up.

Typhus deserves some changes, currently he is just not the star of the death guard he should be. Re-adding retinues to the codex would help quite a bit so Typhus could deep strike in with a squad of terms to protect him. I also think a freaking 2nd in command of nurgle's most blessed troops would have a toughness of 5 (not this 4(5) bs). When a simple 50pt lascannon troop can insta-kill any of chaos' most powerful leaders there is something out of whack.

Would really love to see a stripped down land raider (or something equivalent like a heavily possessed rhino) that we can buy cheaply (maybe around 75-125pts) that gives us better armor than a rhino and allows terminators but doesnt cost 225 pts. It wouldnt have anything in the way of guns/accessories unless you bought them, so it would be strictly for a higher armor transport, but the gap between a 35pt rhino and a 225 land raider is a gap that needs filling. Maybe the legion codex will give us a nurgle land raider that will be something like this. It would fit perfectly into the death guard fluff as well because they have so many nurgle-possessed rhinos/raiders and I can guarantee a very old nurgle possessed rhino would be tough as nails.

Halsfield wrote:Thanks for the kind words Zid but you give good advice too. As far as fluff I'm just going by what is in their chapter approved story (found in WD or index astartes) that gives mortarion's story and the basics of the death guard's strategy and chapter make up.

Typhus deserves some changes, currently he is just not the star of the death guard he should be. Re-adding retinues to the codex would help quite a bit so Typhus could deep strike in with a squad of terms to protect him. I also think a freaking 2nd in command of nurgle's most blessed troops would have a toughness of 5 (not this 4(5) bs). When a simple 50pt lascannon troop can insta-kill any of chaos' most powerful leaders there is something out of whack.

Would really love to see a stripped down land raider (or something equivalent like a heavily possessed rhino) that we can buy cheaply (maybe around 75-125pts) that gives us better armor than a rhino and allows terminators but doesnt cost 225 pts. It wouldnt have anything in the way of guns/accessories unless you bought them, so it would be strictly for a higher armor transport, but the gap between a 35pt rhino and a 225 land raider is a gap that needs filling. Maybe the legion codex will give us a nurgle land raider that will be something like this. It would fit perfectly into the death guard fluff as well because they have so many nurgle-possessed rhinos/raiders and I can guarantee a very old nurgle possessed rhino would be tough as nails.

I agree with your assessment on Typhus. I love him, his model is awesome, and a scythe? Classic death motif! But the fact stupid crap like lascannons and meltas one shot him? a 10 point gun killing a 225 point model in 1 shot just isn't cool... yes, his psychic stuff is top notich (I ran him today against eldar where he decimated a full squad of warp spiders + autarch by himself), and the fact you can force weapon several models is pretty cool. But how often will that be useful honestly? Not only that, I agree he should at least be base T5 with the nurgle mark making him T6. Hes got a 5+ invun, so that doesn't make him OP in the least, especially when hes only swinging around a Str 4 weapon that has a 17% chance to do nothing but hurt him. yeah, hes got a poison wep, but whoopdeedo! Considering Abaddons only 50 points more (and fkn epic beastmode) theres almost no reason to run em. I ran abaddon thru a hive tyrant, carnifex, 10 genestealers, and 6 warriors today, and still had 2 wounds. Typhus got hit by a Wraithlord and got wtfpwned... I was a sad panda :(

As for the legion codex, what is this you speak of? I am intrigued. I love chaos, I love em so much I almost completely stopped playing my nids lol, and anything that adds to the power of the gods I must wield!

Well, Typhus would have had a reasonable time killing the Wraithlord. (assuming no 1's rolled for attacks)
Hitting first, wounding on 4's.
He only needs one wound and then poof with force weapon.

IMO Typhus should be like...Lysander...with them pychic powers and FNP.

As for 1850 lists I run this:

Daemon Prince, wings.
Daemon Prince, wings.
10 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, Rhino.
10 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, Rhino.
10 Plague marines, 2 Flamers, fist, Rhino.
3 Oblits
3 Oblits
Defiler
25 points left to kitt out DP's or champs as I feel like.

At 2000 I replace the defiler with 20 lesser daemons and 3 personal icons.

My 7 Cents.

The list I made was based around Typhus, I prefer dread heavy lists.

The list I made was based around Typhus, I prefer dread heavy lists.

With Typhus I advise against termies as a 'body guard'.
Plague marines are good for that role, and roll up in a Land raider.
2 Shooty plague marines squads in rhinos

Relive the old days of Plague Spear.

Dreads are ok with ML's or 2 DCCW and staying close to the LR to not hurt it and provide some counter charge.

Lots of armored targets, then throw in Defilers or vindis...but I prefer oblits, and not using Typhus.

My 7 Cents.