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I've been playing orks for a while now and am having trouble winning with them.

Most of the people I play against use mech lists with lots of vehicles. They usually just sit at range and shoot the crap out of my transports in the first 1-2 turns. Then they just dance around the field shooting my footsloggin orks from range.

How do people win with this army? Any tips or ideas would be very helpful as I can't seem to win a game.

Well, first we need to know what kind of list you use.

I run Shooty BW Orks, Kan Wall Shooty Orks, and Ghaz BW asasult lists. Each of these lists play differently when it comes to tactics. They also all do very well.

Gimme an idea of your list/playstyle, and I'll do what I can to help

I agree with Alerian. We can't help you too much if you don't provide the type of army you would like to play

I usually run BW shooty or BW assault lists.

Timmah wrote:They usually just sit at range and shoot the crap out of my transports in the first 1-2 turns. Then they just dance around the field shooting my footsloggin orks from range.

It sounds like the armor on your transports is not working if they are cracking the AV14 at range -- as you said you run BW orks. In this case, it sounds like you need a chance of overall strategy.

The hardest thing for Orks to be is lots of tanks. The painful matter is that there are few tools in the ork list to really help take down tanks. For taking down light armor (rhinos, razorbacks, speeders) you can use lootas or deathkopas to great effect. To take down heavy armor, like Land Raiders, your options become considerably less -- pretty much PKs.

Remember that 2/3 of the games are about objectives. It does not matter if they wipe out 80% of your army if you own all the objectives you win the game. Lots of players are still stuck in the mentality of 'this unit must earn it's points back'. Don't fall into that trap.
The other 1/3 of missions are about KPs. The name of the game is to get more KPS than your opponent -- not to wipe them form the board. Be ready to move wounded damaged units back before their wiped, etc.. Build your army list to give up as few KPs as possible, and just nab his easy ones -- rhinos, chimeras, etc..

Unless you are running tournaments (and timed play), I would suggest switching to a horde army. Drop your BW mobs of 20 each, and throw down 3-4 squads of 30 shoota or slugga boys. You might want to also use a squad of grots for objective grabbing, as they are cheap and great for that role -- or the role of mobile cover. Its not hard to generate 150 models this way in a 1500 point game.
Support them with Snikrot and Krew. Having 15 models come out from behind your opponent will really put a damper in his plan. On the charge, snikrot has 6 STR 6 attacks, and can really tear up some light armor, or the rear of tanks. I've used him to great effect against basilisks, etc.
Support them with defkoptas/lootas. These will let you tear up the transports pretty easily, which is the main role of those units. Once you have cracked their transports, then your boys can get into the fighting.
Using a Big Mek with KFF is optional. I've not had problems getting cover with my models, through normal terrain or using my grots as mobile cover, so a 4+ cover save is not usually difficult. Some game stores don't have as much terrain, and then the KFF is much more useful. That's really up to you to decide.
You can try using some tankbustas. I've had mixed success with them, and you can test em to your liking.

If your opponent is killing 10-20 models a turn, its a lot easier when you have 150 to lose. Remember the ork motto "Crunch all you like, we'll make more" and let them die. Keep them in cover, and be smart about it, but don't cry when you lose models. Remember, the game is about objectives or KPs, and not keeping your models alive.

Are you using a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field?

If not you should be. Period. Exclamation point.

both of my Ork playing friends do realy well with loota squads, they pop Rinos and scramble my waveserpents almost every game

I don't get it... First you sadi that you paly footslogging orks... then on 2nd post, you said you play BW shooty or BW assault army...

Either way, against mech, You almost have nothing to get rid of those, let alone Mechdar.

Anyways, this is the following options that MIGHT INCREASE ( please note the caps) your winning percentage

1. Lootas, they kill armor 11 reliably and scare armor 12. If your opponent has lots of armor 13+, just pray you get lucky with PKs.

2. Power Klaws, They munch MCs, Infantries, heavy infantry, tanks (except LRs) reliably, but you have to get close and that sometimes can be proven uberly hard if you play orks against mech. Best way to counter mech w/ PKs is to run mech also... Not reliable but helps you to move the PKs around faster.

Take it or drop it. Hopefully it helps... Oh, btw, KFF is not the SUPER UBER equipment... it help, but doesn't make it indestructible... Let's be real here. Nothing is reliable in ANY ork army.

I usually run 15 lootas at least.

The problem is that they can only shoot at one target a turn. And even with an avg of 30 shots that is only like 1-2 glancing or penatrating hits. And if my opponent gets any type of cover save I might not even do anything.

They haven't been very useful for me as tank hunters.

As for PW's, I can never get in range to use them. My opponents just stay mobile and I can never assault their vehicles, even when I get lucky and do, I hit on 6s, so I might not even get 1 hit.

What are you shooting with your lootas? You should be shooting AV10 or AV11 targets. A squad of 15 of them should be enough to pop 1 rhino a turn.

If your looking for more rhino-popping goodness, look into deffkoptas. They can scout move up the board before the game starts, then they can move 12" and get a great shot at the rear armor of an enemy. The best part is that they still get their 3+ cover save from the scout move on the 1st turn. (Ask Gwar)

Remember, you just want to crack the candy-shell (transport) to get to the juicy troops inside.

I agree with the other:

1. Adopt the Ork fill-loss-o-fi "we never lose". Nothing in my Ork army is sacred. Be willing to sacrifice any unit.
2. Against vehicles I run 3-4 BW all with Deffrollas. They auto hit regardless of how fast the vehicle moves, except skimmers which are almost always lower AV.
3. Ignore their vehicles you can't kill easily. I love to play against multiple LRs. They're a huge point sink. Or screen with other units, I run 12 BikerBoyz every game at 1500+ games. They distract while escorting my BikerBoss to the front.

What are the exact vehicles you are fighting against?

How do you get 15 lootas to pop a rhino a turn?

30 shots, 10 hit, 1-2 glance 2-3 pen.

So you basically have about a 66% chance of blowing up a rhino. Not the greatest chance though not bad. usually my opponent can get cover from range though and that means i only have about a 30% or less chance of doing anything meaningful.


Oh and deffrollas don't work on vehicles...

Good point Timmah.
Why don't you just start using some deffkoptas instead. Thier mobility gives you the ability to better line up shots, and the twin linked rokkits are some of your best shooting available.

For nominal armor your PK nobz are all str 8. You just need to get them to the fight. PKs on bikes or BWs to get to priorities should do the job. Keep the BWs AV 14 facing the large threats, paint it red, put a Big Mek with a KFF (it's cheap and it helps alot) in it. Do what you need to do to get it across the field. For str 8 and ranged go TL rokkit deff koptas or the more durable but less mobile rokkit kan squads. For bigger than str 8 you need PKs. A deff dread or a warboss has alot of str 10 PK attacks per round.

Everyone overlooks them, but tankbustas are great. Pop the small armor or try and move them so that they can't shoot at the small armor and get them in assaulting range of the big stuff. They should make short work of any vehicle they come across. Same deal as before. Keep the BWs AV 14 facing the large threats, paint it red, put a Big Mek with a KFF in it. Do what you need to do to get it across the field.

Kommandos can get right to anything that they are trying to hide long distance on the table.

Or you can go the opposite route and fight with a massive horde like labmouse suggested. If you go footslogging do a kan wall or grot wall or both in front of your boyz and heavy hitters. Put the KFF Mek in position to support your bullet wall and run across the field like a maniac with as many models as possible. Once the Orks get to assault and get the charge it should be a slaughter house.

How many BWs do you field? The problem may be that you have too little armor on the field. I think lootas don't belong in a BW assault list BTW. they are better for supporting a foot sloggin army. If you want to add range weapons than warbikes with PKs, TL rokkit deff koptas, TL rokkit buggies are a better match.

Also remember that you could always just ignore the big armor. Try and weight just how much damage it's really doing per round, and see if it would be more beneficial to just go after his other units and grab objectives. Your problem might be that you are spending too many resources trying to take down the heavy armor.

If you are desperate to break through heavy armor you could always pull a long range ram. That option is always open to you. You are an ork you should do crazy things

Also in many tournies deff rollers do work on vehicles. You should have some in your arsenal anyway to mow down the infantry. That's just fun.

If you are running Lootas, run at least 2 squads..even if it means dropping them down to 12 man squads. This is important so that you can target two transports/units a turn. it also allows you some redundancy, if your opponent goes after your Lootas.

If you are having any trouble with transports, Koptas are the answer. With a 24" turboboos before the game starts they will have a 3+ cover save if you go second, or they will autohit with buzzsaws on turn one if you go first. My prefered setup is 2x Koptas with Rokkits, one of which has a buzzsaw. I also have had luck with just 2x Bigshootas +1 Buzzsaw in my Kan list, since my 9 Kans all have Rokkits.

I would defintenely use lootas and tank bustaz. Maybe some Zzap cannons??

Problems with vehicles in a BW list?

You, my friend, need Deff Rollas. Remember that all Rams are Tank Shocks, but not all Tank Shocks are Rams.

If you are playing lots of Eldar Grav-Tanks, then this approach is a godsend. Take multiple units of deffkoptas, outflank, shoot and assault them, then hit and run to safety. Be sure to hit rear armour. Remember, if the vehicle is 'Wrecked' and your koptas are within 2" of the access point, all of the passengers are AUTOMATICALLY DESTROYED! SUCH AWESOMENESS! (I use this all the time. Once destroyed an Ulthran Seer Council)

Warboss Gutrip wrote:If you are playing lots of Eldar Grav-Tanks, then this approach is a godsend. Take multiple units of deffkoptas, outflank, shoot and assault them, then hit and run to safety. Be sure to hit rear armour. Remember, if the vehicle is 'Wrecked' and your koptas are within 2" of the access point, all of the passengers are AUTOMATICALLY DESTROYED! SUCH AWESOMENESS! (I use this all the time. Once destroyed an Ulthran Seer Council)

Wow, so many rules broken. Have you even read the rulebook?

Timmah wrote:How do you get 15 lootas to pop a rhino a turn?

30 shots, 10 hit, 1-2 glance 2-3 pen.

Deffguns strength is 7. So you should have 5 or so results of any kind, glancing or otherwise, which should be enough to stop a rhino in it's tracks. Note that "Immobilized" is just as good as destroyed in that it prevents them from getting any closer to you. The lootas should also be chilling out in a battlewagon to minimize return fire.

5 results, 2-3 will be cover saved

so about a 1/2 to 2/3 chance of doing anything, which is what I initially said.
Not terrible, but not great.

1-3 doesn't really stop a rhino.

Timmah wrote:5 results, 2-3 will be cover saved

Cover is situational.

Orks are great in a horde manner but SLOWWWWW!!

in my 2k army, I turned them into a multi-level threat. I have 3x20 stormboyz (19 boyz and 1 nob with pk), 3x30 boyz (29 boyz and 1 nob with pk), 2x14 lootas with a warboss.

The stormboyz are FAST and with enough numbers and T4 to survive a turn or two of shooting. With their 19-24" charge distance (13"-18" in the movement and 6" charge), they will get into H2H within two turns.

This will allow your 3 mobs of boyz to move\run for a total of 7-12" to get into the fight by turn 2 if lucky.

And of course, the Lootas, love my Lootas. Let them take out the light armour and the enemies ranged weapon platforms.

This is 179 Orks sayng WWWAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
and as a follow-up, my warboss, with a pk, attached to a mob of 30. Once you get him close enough to charge, let him go and get a land raider or monilith. With Furious Charge and a Attack Squib, that is 6x S11 attacks. bye-by land raider or monilith

Timmah wrote:

Oh and deffrollas don't work on vehicles...

My FLGS has always allowed DeffRollas against vehicles since day one and of course at 'Ard Boyz as did most stores did nationwide.

I would get a bunch of warbikes, trukks, and any other fast attack you can think of, so you can catch up to there front line before you army is cut in half.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:If you are playing lots of Eldar Grav-Tanks, then this approach is a godsend. Take multiple units of deffkoptas, outflank, shoot and assault them, then hit and run to safety. Be sure to hit rear armour. Remember, if the vehicle is 'Wrecked' and your koptas are within 2" of the access point, all of the passengers are AUTOMATICALLY DESTROYED! SUCH AWESOMENESS! (I use this all the time. Once destroyed an Ulthran Seer Council)

I think you are thinking about 4th edition where I once did that to a LR and killed all my friends uber unit inside. In 5th they get to emergency disembark anywhere within 2" of the vehilce and take a wound maybe I don't have the RuleBook with me. No matter what I know it is different now in 5th.

PipeAlley wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Oh and deffrollas don't work on vehicles...

My FLGS has always allowed DeffRollas against vehicles since day one and of course at 'Ard Boyz as did most stores did nationwide.

Dang, I wish my FLGS let me cheat with my army.

Ok gais, this game all my marines save on 2+ and their weapons are str 6, ap1...k?...gais?

Tankbustas. Lots and lots of Tankbustas.

timmah wrote:
Dang, I wish my FLGS let me cheat with my army.

Tenets of YMDC wrote: 5. Stick to discussing the rules, not the poster. Phrases like "Rules Lawyer", "Cheater" and "TFG" have no place in rules discussions. Don't depart from rules discussions by attaching value judgments to different interpretations.

Did someone just miss a lot of comments about calling people cheaters? I mean, those threads were pretty hard to miss.



On topic: Boarding planks and biker fists. If your enemy is moving more than 6" they're not shooting (unless they're Eldar or DE). Bikes can catch vehicles with a lovely 18" threat range (plus the turn one turboboost) and with boarding planks you don't have to expose your squad to danger. for 5 points, it's worth it to get to swing 4 Pfist attacks at something.

Timmah wrote:

PipeAlley wrote:

Timmah wrote:

Oh and deffrollas don't work on vehicles...

My FLGS has always allowed DeffRollas against vehicles since day one and of course at 'Ard Boyz as did most stores did nationwide.

Dang, I wish my FLGS let me cheat with my army.

Ok gais, this game all my marines save on 2+ and their weapons are str 6, ap1...k?...gais?

So how many players, tournie organizers, FLGS runners, and GW employees are cheaters? It is a debatable topic and not a definitive as you suggest. You ever read Catcher In The Rye Timmah? Calling everyone a cheater is only going to alienate you.