Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Even though the Chaos 'dex pales in comparison to newer dexes (to put it mildly), I've chosen Chaos as my next army to run in a local campaign. I've tried a variation on this list with mixed results and this is my latest efforts;


DP, Wings, MoN, Warptime (flies out from behind Land Raider/uses Rhinos for cover)
Kharne (joins 'zerkers until assault)

5-man Chosen, 2 meltas, 2 Flamers, Rhino (a bit of crowd control)
5-man Chosen, 2 meltas, 2 Flamers, Rhino (same)

5-man Plague Marine squad, 2 meltas, Rhino
5-man Plague Marine squad, 2 meltas, Rhino
5-man Plague Marine squad, 2 meltas, Rhino
5-man Plague Marine squad, 2 meltas, Rhino
6-man Berzerkers, P.Fist champ (in Landraider)

Land Raider
Predator Las/HB
Predator Las/HB

The general aim of this list is to get at the enemy and provide enough "Big" threats to force the enemy to split fire to deal with them. I don't get out of Rhinos unless I have to, tank shocking as much as possible. I'm relying on the toughness of the Land Raider to get the 'zerkers where they need to go. Let Kharne off his leash the moment I get a chance and hopefully watch the DP pounce a few things. Predators and a PM unit or two guard the rear objective.
I'll need at least 4 rhinos and the Raider advancing as much as possible for this to work. My old 8-rhino list has been doing "okay", but there just isn't that much reliable long-range fire support available (at a reasonable price) in the Chaos codex.

Thoughts? Comments?

So I'm guessing you have no issues with min/maxing, or ultra cookie cutting?
_______________
Dp is ok.
I prefer a pair of DP's though.
Kharn is a fun choice.
Chosen are meh I believe the squad sizes are an issue.
With the rhino outflanking you have 2 options in offense:
1. Move 6" and shoot from hatch, safer for squads inside, but limits the effective range by alot.
2. Move 12" and drop dudes off for a 27" reach from the short table edge, but now you have a soft squad exposed.

Plague marines look ok, but no diversifying the weapons, plasmas and flamers are good weapons as well.

Zerkers have too low of a model count, esp. with Kharne rolling them 1's...
Land raider: no extra armor? Certainly it's expensive, but it's worth it for the LR as Shaken just makes it look stupid, /shrug, but they 'can' function without the EA.

Preds are prob. a fun choice, It's not one of the 2 'relative efficient' builds chaos has for them.
I highly suggest the AC/2 lascannons if you are looking at lacannons being the weapons you want to use on the pred.

Kill points will suck. 18 at 2000. Many of them are soft kill poings in the form of AV 11 and min sized MEQs.

Oblits are not reasonably priced? I think they are; I never leave home without them.
Even with the small price increase between codicies it's well worth what you get: a batter of plasma cannons at the very least, in addition it's easier to hide 3 obliterators than a pred (at least with the terrain in my gaming group).

My 7 Cents.

Sanctjud wrote:So I'm guessing you have no issues with min/maxing, or ultra cookie cutting?

I just don't see a lot that's worthwhile in the Codex. Plenty of "fun" stuff, nothing really solid. So, with Chaos, no I really don't have much of a problem with cookie-cutting. If there's a more varied build out there that stands a chance against some competitive lists AND fits my preferred playstyle, I'll gladly give it a try.

_______________
Dp is ok.
I prefer a pair of DP's though.
Kharn is a fun choice.

Working with the models I have. I don't have a second DP.

Chosen are meh I believe the squad sizes are an issue.
With the rhino outflanking you have 2 options in offense:
1. Move 6" and shoot from hatch, safer for squads inside, but limits the effective range by alot.
2. Move 12" and drop dudes off for a 27" reach from the short table edge, but now you have a soft squad exposed.

Not necessarily used for outflanking. I have these in my army to tie the whole thing together as a Black Legion force. And I often forget about special rules, more often then not, they'll be used as psuedo havocs.

Plague marines look ok, but no diversifying the weapons, plasmas and flamers are good weapons as well.

Sure, but playing with what I have, against what's in my group (lots of mech).

Zerkers have too low of a model count, esp. with Kharne rolling them 1's...

Like I mentioned, Kharne will venture off on his own once that ramp drops. I'll try to keep him away from other combats.

Land raider: no extra armor? Certainly it's expensive, but it's worth it for the LR as Shaken just makes it look stupid, /shrug, but they 'can' function without the EA.

couldn't find the points for extra toys

Preds are prob. a fun choice, It's not one of the 2 'relative efficient' builds chaos has for them.
I highly suggest the AC/2 lascannons if you are looking at lacannons being the weapons you want to use on the pred.

Didn't have the points for that combo and I'm not sure I want to spend more points on a Pred. Do you have the maths' available for more efficient builds? I may just go with standard preds with HB sponsons... haven't decided fully yet. Just needed more long-range fire support compared to my previous builds.

Kill points will suck. 18 at 2000. Many of them are soft kill poings in the form of AV 11 and min sized MEQs.

Haven't played a single game where kill points mattered yet. But yes, that is a concern. How would you bring that down without nuetering the army's concept? I can't have a rhino without a squad inside it.

Oblits are not reasonably priced? I think they are; I never leave home without them.
Even with the small price increase between codicies it's well worth what you get: a batter of plasma cannons at the very least, in addition it's easier to hide 3 obliterators than a pred (at least with the terrain in my gaming group).

75 points for a glorified, slow terminator with a lascannon. 225 points for 3 models that can be brought down by a single str8 volley/template, or 165 points for 1 model that does the same job with the same risks and gets just as much "cover" as the Oblits do... I have yet to have these guys perform well for me. It seems that unless I build a list specifically around Oblits, they really aren't too hard to nueter.... like Predators... And since I'm not going to do a termicide army for now... no real need for them.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming!

Your list seems kinda weak to me... the squads are small, meaning they'res a lot of KP's for your opponent to get with relative ease. Kharns nice, same with your zerkers, but Kharne CAN be insta-killed by a well placed shot or power fist. Keep that in mind! Lastly your preds are OK I suppose. I'd honestly run a dakkapred and a laspred if you were going to run 2 pred's. Make each specialize in something. Otherwise, I generally agree with the other guy who commented

Deadite wrote:
75 points for a glorified, slow terminator with a lascannon. 225 points for 3 models that can be brought down by a single str8 volley/template, or 165 points for 1 model that does the same job with the same risks and gets just as much "cover" as the Oblits do... I have yet to have these guys perform well for me. It seems that unless I build a list specifically around Oblits, they really aren't too hard to nueter.... like Predators... And since I'm not going to do a termicide army for now... no real need for them.

If they did just have a lascannon you would be right, but they have a weapon for every situation under the sun. Even without considering their durability (there are few weapons that can drop two oblits in one go. Even those that there are can fell a pred with the same effort) for fewer points you get more anti-tank (two lascannon compared to one TL), more anti-horde (two plasma cannon compared to two heavy bolters) and a unit that can seriously threaten MEQs and terminators.

Your list doesnt have a lot of punch to it. You have lots of meltas but thats about it. Plague marines by temselves cant kill enough things to win you games, especially in such small squads without powerfists. Your single squad of berzerkers is too small and you risk losing it if you get a run of bad rolls when you charge. If you are charged you will definately lose it. Kill points will also screw you over royally. 18 is a lot for a 2000pt army.

I think you would be better cutting one plague marine squad and using it to beef up all your others. It really is essential to have powerfists in plague marine squads so they they dont get tied up by a dread or a wraithlord and slowly die. Your berzerkers could also use a few more bodies.

Changed up the list to hopefully suit my tastes and improve it a little. Let me know what you think.
I tend to build in blocks, so the army list may look a bit weird at first read.

At 1500 -

DP, MoN, wings, warp

8 Chosen, 2 flamers, 2 meltas, pfist champ, IoCG, Rhino

7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino

2 Obliterators
Predator with las sponsons
Predator with las sponsons

It'll probably struggle a bit with hordes but tank shocking should be fun.

At 1750;
Add 8 Berzerkers, pfist Champ, Rhino

At 2000;
1 more Obliterator to flesh out the unit
5 Plague Marines with 2 Plasmas (rear objective campers)
upgrade one of the Rhino Plague Marines to a Pfist Champ.

Thoughts?

Deadite wrote:Changed up the list to hopefully suit my tastes and improve it a little. Let me know what you think.
I tend to build in blocks, so the army list may look a bit weird at first read.

At 1500 -

DP, MoN, wings, warp

8 Chosen, 2 flamers, 2 meltas, pfist champ, IoCG, Rhino

7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino
7 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, Rhino

2 Obliterators
Predator with las sponsons
Predator with las sponsons

It'll probably struggle a bit with hordes but tank shocking should be fun.

At 1750;
Add 8 Berzerkers, pfist Champ, Rhino

At 2000;
1 more Obliterator to flesh out the unit
5 Plague Marines with 2 Plasmas (rear objective campers)
upgrade one of the Rhino Plague Marines to a Pfist Champ.

Thoughts?

Change one of those melta squads in the normal list to P-gun squad. Its ideal vs. MC's and HQ's! You don't need THAT much melta Otherwise I like it

Zid wrote:
Change one of those melta squads in the normal list to P-gun squad. Its ideal vs. MC's and HQ's! You don't need THAT much melta Otherwise I like it

Thanks!
Meltas are what they're modelled with, they're cheaper, better against armor, insta-kills a lot of things (like HQ's), doesn't kill the user on a bad roll, and allows me to assault. Nothing like whiffing a few plasma-gun shots against a dread/tank/HQ/MC, rolling to find out if the users live or die (potentially twice with FNP) and not being able to assault, all at 5 points more per gun than a melta. I'll save myself those headaches and the 5 points.