Thanks for the input thus far, I do appreciate the multiple points of view and concerns, it greatly helps when others contribute from outside my thought process.
At this point I am thinking that something along the lines of the marching list is what I want to bring. Most people I have shown it to agrees that it can be competitive (depending on the opponent), as well as being much more interesting to play/play-against than the gunline. With that in mind...
Responding to suggestions regarding the 1st list, in order of arrival:
How does the first one handle double dragons? You are going to find a full blitz list somewhere, and a dwarf list has trouble getting them into their Lord even with them being forced to charge to get out of the artillery fire. With them free to pick their charges it seems like you are going to be getting dragons/thirsters in units you can't get the Lord to, and that's GG.
I had hoped that between the added infantry maneuverability (Oath & Honor) and no-fly capability (Wrath & Ruin) of the AoD as well as the general
CR bonuses/staying power of the infantry I would be able to hold flyers in check until supporting units could be moved into position, but further thinking about your comment makes me a bit less certain, though others suggest potential solutions later. Also, my overall deployment plan for this army has them tightly bunched initially (about 22" across on the front), but spreading to a 30+" wide frontage at the end of turn 1 (perhaps I should create some sort of diagram... later), which I am hoping to use to catch my opponent off guard and hopefully net a few flanking units before they can skirt around my flank (I greatly prefer to deploy against one board edge to better force a head on engagement).
Whatever you take, don't forget to give Master Rune of Challenge to one of your heroes so you can contain double dragons etc. a bit easier by pulling one to the (preferably unkillable) dwarf lord.
I think this is a good possible solution to the problem mentioned above, possibly working it into a lesser character (possibly the runesmith) that can be attached to the lord's unit against armies where this is a necessity and against non-flyer-blitz attached to their own unit the rest of the time. Alternatively, I could exchange the MRoDismay for the MRoChallenge on the combat thane since he is considerably more potent in combat, and combined with the unit of ironbreakers gives me a handy tarpit unit. Also, in the event that he plants the oathstone and renders that unit immobile, this would provide a means of forcing another unit to engage them. The more I think about, this the more I like it...
What about magic defense? There will be lists that will contain so much magic you're going to need something to stave off all those power dice!!
and
Also, I think you'd probably be better off with a pair of spell breakers rather than balance? You already have 8 dice, and it'll be nice to have the auto-dispell for when someone throws 5 dice at a pit of shades or Cloying Quagmire or some such.
I had hoped that 9 dispel dice would be sufficient at this level, in addition to stealing one of my opponent's power dice, but perhaps you are correct. I could hand out an oathstone to the
BSB for
MR(1) in another unit, or perhaps do as Red_Zeke has suggested and use 2 dispel runes rather than the MRoBalanace, possibly both.
Like I said in the initial post, I expect there will be some lists with so much casting that I simply cannot hope to stop it all, and trying to do so will leave me increasingly exposed in other aspects. Fortunately, I have dwarven toughness/armor to help stand up to some of the less terrifying magic missiles and bound spells, so I can at least try to judge when to use my dice versus those nasty 'no armor save' spells, or others which might ruin my day.
On the first list, what's the thought process behind the rune of striking on the runesmith? And no Rune of Stone? If you keep his hand weapon mundane, give him Rune of Stone and a shield, he's up to a 1+ save to the front.
Sadly, I had simply forgotten that the RoStone was an exception to the Rule of Pride and had already given armor with only the RoStone to the combat thane, I'll correct this when I post the reworked list later. The RoStriking was given to him both to hand out another magical weapon (trying to avoid etherial tarpits) as well as to give him some better protection/advantage against elite rank & file with WS5 as well as non-combat characters in the event of a challenge. If he ends up sporting the MRoChallenge then he'll lose the magic weapon as well as not get the RoStone, since he is included for his magical defenses rather than combat ability, but otherwise I'll try and improve him a bit.
I'll append a reworked list to this post tomorrow morning, if you see anything still unaddressed, please let me know.
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How does this look for a refined iteration of the first list?
Thorek Ironbrow 505
Dwarf Lord 298
shieldbearers, shield, MRoSteel, RoResistance, MRoSpite, RoFire
Thane 295
BSB, MRoStromni, RoGuarding, Strollaz Rune, oathstone
Thane 162
shield, MRoChallenge, MRoSwiftness, RoCleaving, RoStone, oathstone
Runesmith 151
shield, MroBalance, RoSpellbreaking, great weapon
20 Longbeards 335
Runesmith goes here, maybe BSB
shields, Great Weapons(
GW from here out) , Full Command (
FC from here out), RoCourage
20 Warriors 200
shields, veteran, standard
10 Warriors 100
BSB goes here, maybe runesmith
GW
10 Warriors 110
GW, veteran
10 Miners 110
12 Slayers 132
14 Hammerers 262
Lord goes here
shields,
FC, MRoGrungi
20 Ironbreakers 340
Thane goes here
FC, RoStoicism, RoBattle
Dropped 3 slayers and the musician from the 20 warriors with shields, changed MRoDismay to the MRoChallenge on the combat thane, added a great weapon and a RoSpellbreaking to the runesmith, and added an oathstone to the
BSB for better magical protection. I am tempted to switch the
BSB with the runesmith as far as units goes to better protect the longbeards with
MR(1) from his oathstone, but have no serious intention of him ever setting the stone outside of a late game flank charge by a low threat opponent.
This seems a bit more capable against double-dragon style blitz lists as well as having a touch more magical protection. Do these seem like reasonable improvements without sacrificing too much from the combat potential of the list?
