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Hello, having been a long-time sisters player, I feel obliged to put forth the sum of my knowledge, in order for it to be absorbed, calculated, reformed, and/or rejected by the community at large. I will be reviewing the units in the order they appear in the codex. In summary they will be rated on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best.

HQ:
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord.
At first glance this guy seems cheap, until you realize you need to at least double his cost to make him decent. Without a retinue he is a sub-par choice, both at shooting and at close combat, and at T3, almost anything that ignores his armor save causes instant death. His retinue is where he truly becomes a powerhouse. He must take between 3-12 henchmen, which either boost his effectiveness, or are powerhouses of their own virtues. It should be noted that all inquisitors are psykers, but, in my opinion, the ordo hereticus psychic powers are sub-par. His will be done is decent, so is word of the emperor. The rest are rubbish. It should also be noted that his retinue may take a land raider, something otherwise impossible for sisters.
Rating: 4

Adeptus Sororitas Heroine.
Better than the Inquisitor lord, but not by much. She gets access to different parts of the armory, and is better at shooting. A popular build is Blessed weapon/evis + jump pack + inferno pistol + whatever other wargear you like. It is not a bad build. Always take a Canonness, she adds a faith point for 10 points, that makes her well worth it.
Rating: 8

Priest.
Only an honorable mention here. There is no worse HQ option, to make them decent in CC, they require too much wargear, and they cannot be attached to any squads that would truly benefit from their special abilities. He unlocks a couple half-decent units though.
Rating: 3

Elites:
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor.
Same as inquisitor lord, except cheaper, and a small retinue.
Rating: 4

Arco-Flagellants.
imagine if howling banshees were twice as expensive, with no vehicles, random attacks, but had an invuln save. Oh, and you need a priest to unlock them. leave them at home.
Rating: 3

Celestians.
Great retinue for your canonness. Hits on 3s in CC, can take great weapons, can take immolators, faithful.
Rating: 7

Sisters repentia:
See Arco-flagellants. Now give them 2d6 armor penetration. for less points.
They are better than Arco Flagellants, but thats like saying vomit is better than
Rating: 3

Assassins.
Need an inquisitor to unlock.
Culexus.
Good if the enemy has tons of psykers in his army, bad otherwise. Souless is ok.
Rating: 2

Callidus.
Most expensive assassin.
Best assassin.
Like sly marbo on crack.
Rating: 6

Eversor.
Cheapest Assassin.
Second best assassin.
Like sly marbo if he couldn't show up wherever he wanted. fun suicide unit.
Rating: 5

Vindicaire.
Trouble with lots of troops-heavy, gunlining armies? take a vindicaire. Take out guardsman HW teams with the turbo-penetrators, storm-shielded assault sarges? Shield breaker! TMCs? Hellfire! Turbo pen is also great vs vehicles. That said, he is too expensive. Way too expensive. I'd take him if he was 40 points.
Rating: 3

Death cult assassins:
require an inquisitor.
Meh. 40 points for something that will die to the first thing that shoot at it.
Meh.
Rating: 3

Troops:
Battle sister squad.
WHOOO!
best troops choice ever. Not even joking. Imagine is space marines were 11 points, and, with an act of faith, they could get rending bolters. It's called divine guidance, and it's awesome.
like I said, WHOO.
Oh, and flamers and heavy flamers.
that are AP1 on a to-wound of 6.
Best troops choice ever.
Rating: 10

Inquisitorial Storm troopers.
10 point guardsmen. with a 4+ armor save. and an expensive chimera.
whoo.
Rating: 4

Seraphim.
22 point S3 T3 assault marines, with TL bolt pistols.
Pretty good anti-horde if you give them hand flamers. pretty good tank hunters with inferno pistols and an evis. Hit & Run is handy.
Rating: 6

Dominions.
Pretty good, but dont mesh well in a sisters army. They can take a bunch of special weapons, but sisters dont need that, as they already have a bunch of special weapons.
Rating: 5

Retributors.
Better than dominions in that they carry heavy weapons, which sisters lack. but more expensive. If you want them, take 6 + an immolator, and run something better in the immolator, while hanging them back with their heavy bolters (which are still AP1 on a to-wound of 6)
Rating: 5

Immolators.
WHOO. Seriously though, great transport. Imagine razorbacks, but awesome. Can move 12 inches and fire their twin-linked heavy flamer.
Rating: 8

Exorcist.
Pretty good. Expensive, but good. Great anti-tank, 3 of them can hurt a land raider with some lucky rolls, one of them will almost certainly kill a rhino per turn. Great in an army that lacks that kind of strength.
Rating: 9

Penitent Engines.
Need a priest to unlock.
They're like killa kans, if killa kans kost 80 points. Hflamer is ok. If you take one, take 9, to be sure some get into CC.
Rating: 6

Orbital Strike.
Need an inquisitor.
If you take an inquisitor, take on of these. It's like a 12" area that your enemy shouldn't go if he values his life. the lance strike is the best, but the melta-torpedo is also great, and the psyk-out warhead sucks.
Lance Strike Rating: 7
Melta Torpedo rating: 5
Psyk-out Rating: 1


Cwestions, Comments, Criticism?
Did I miss anything?
Anything need elaboration?

Canonness Rory wrote:Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord.
At first glance this guy seems cheap, until you realize you need to at least double his cost to make him decent. Without a retinue he is a sub-par choice, both at shooting and at close combat, and at T3, almost anything that ignores his armor save causes instant death. His retinue is where he truly becomes a powerhouse.

Without a retinue, he is illegal; with, he is still a sub-par choice, even compared with an Imperial Guard Command Squad. He is worthless in close combat, and the best gun he can get is a Storm Bolter? Not to mention the retinue options are mostly poor. There is a good reason why everyone uses the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord, or none at all.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Adeptus Sororitas Heroine.
Better than the Inquisitor lord, but not by much. She gets access to different parts of the armory, and is better at shooting. A popular build is Blessed weapon + jump pack + inferno pistol. It is not a bad build. Always take a Canonness, she adds a faith point for 10 points, that makes her well worth it.

Not by much? I would love to see your games, as in mine the Canoness is hands-down the most valuable unit on the board. My opponents constantly complain about how stupidly under-costed she is for what she can do. As for Blessed Weapon, it is 50/50 to whether people use that or an Evicerator, depending entirely on the role she is supposed to fill. The Inferno Pistol is also largely optional, but the mandatory Cloak of St Aspira is missing from your list. The Canoness is not always taken either, as a Palantine is the better option in an Immolator-spam list, unless you have points to kill. In a `conventional' Sisters list, however, there is no reason not to spend the 10 points.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Arco-Flagellants.
imagine if howling banshees were twice as expensive, with no vehicles, less attacks, and couldn't contest objectives. Oh, and you need a priest to unlock them. leave them at home.

More attacks, can contest objectives, have an invulnerable save, higher strength, higher toughness (Howling Banshees were a terrible comparison), but (on average) one dies every second turn, when the opponent does not attack them and they cannot be reliably controlled in the movement phase and lack Fleet.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Celestians.
Great retinue for your canonness. Hits on 3s in CC, can take great weapons, can take immolators.

Hitting on 3s is not the reason to take Celestians, as they are still quite useless in close combat. I am not sure what you mean by `great weapons' either.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Sisters repentia:
See Arco-flagellants. Now give them 2d6 armor penetration. for less points.
They are better than Arco Flagellants, but thats like saying vomit is better than

Er... lower toughness, no invulnerable, slower, less attacks... how are they better than Arco-Flagellants? Any long-time Sisters player will tell you that the heretics are the better of the bad bunch.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Callidus.
Most expensive assassin.
Best assassin.
Like sly marbo on crack.

That was true in third and fourth edition; Marbo is better in fifth.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Vindicaire.
Trouble with lots of troops-heavy, gunlining armies? take a vindicaire. Take out guardsman HW teams with the turbo-penetrators, storm-shielded assault sarges? Shield breaker! TMCs? Hellfire! Turbo pen is also great vs vehicles. That said, he is too expensive.

The Vindicare has always been considered the worst option in Codex: Assassins (and the latter Inquisition books). Too expensive for too little `oomph'. Statistically, he cannot take out a Guard Heavy Weapon Team, is unlikely to take out that Sergeant, is worthless against MCs, and is generally worthless against vehicles. On average, he will cause two wounds in a game. A Grot does more than that when it sneezes.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Troops:
Battle sister squad.
WHOOO!
best troops choice ever. Not even joking. Imagine is space marines were 11 points, and, if they took at ld test at ld10, they could get rending bolters. It's called divine guidance, and it's awesome.
like I said, WHOO.
Oh, and flamers and heavy flamers.
that are AP1 on a to-wound of 6.
Best troops choice ever.

Great Troops? Yes. Best Troops? Debatable. Imagine Space Marines who are useless in close combat, die faster to shooting, and lack heavy weapons. PS many Space Marines can take their Leadership Tests at Ld10 --- it is called Rites of Battle. Once again, you are drawing a very, very bad comparison. They are more like Dire Avengers than Tactical Squads. Both have devastating shooting if you upgrade the squad leader and use a special ability, but only at close range. The Eldar are also superior in Close Combat, but cost the same (for a whole unit, using the typical build).

Canonness Rory wrote:
Inquisitorial Storm troopers.
10 point guardsmen. with a 4+ armor save. and an expensive chimera.
whoo.

Battle Sisters: 110 points, before upgrades. Storm Troopers: 50 points, before upgrades. Storm Troopers are an excellent Troops Choice that are invaluable in fifth edition tournament lists. You will find almost everyone runs them now.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Seraphim.
22 point S3 T3 assault marines, with TL bolt pistols.
Pretty good anti-horde if you give them hand flamers.

Nah, poor against hoarde. A unit of Battle Sisters will kill more for less points. Under fifth edition TLOS, they are worthless in the standard Mech lists, as they will take all non-anti-tank fire and be killed before they can do anything. They were the best unit in the codex in third and fourth edition, but are so over-priced as to be worthless in fifth. Well, not quite true. In a footslogger list they are still brilliant!

Canonness Rory wrote:
Dominions.
Pretty good, but dont mesh well in a sisters army. They can take a bunch of special weapons, but sisters dont need that, as they already have a bunch of special weapons.

Invaluable in the Immolator-spam list, but generally they do not serve a purpose. They made subtly more sense in their original form, but the current version serves little purpose.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Retributors.
Better than dominions, but more expensive. If you want them, take 6 + an immolator, and run something better in the immolator, while hanging them back with their heavy bolters (which are still AP1 on a to-wound of 6)

Waste of a Faith Point to use Divine Guidance on them. On average, a Battle Sister Squad will score more AP1 wounds and more kills over-all. They are also fairly worthless against hoard, despite what many may say. Some people swear by them. My opponents took to pretending they were not on the table, as they were the least-threatening option I could field (even less so than the Inquisitor Lord).

Canonness Rory wrote:
Exorcist.
Pretty good. Expensive, but good. Great anti-tank, 3 of them can hurt a land raider with some lucky rolls, one of them will almost certainly kill a rhino per turn. Great in an army that lacks that kind of strength.

Expensive? Most people consider the Exorcist under-costed. Attacking Land Raiders is a waste of time too, as they probability of even three doing anything is pretty slim. They are designed for taking-out light armour and MC, and nothing does this better than they do.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Penitent Engines.
Need a priest to unlock.
They're like killa kans, if killa kans kost 80 points. TL Hflamer is ok. If you take one, take 9, to be sure some get into CC.

The Heavy Flamer is not twin-linked. Rules for twin-linked template weapons did not exist when the book was written, so rather than twin-linked flamers it was upgraded to a regular heavy-flamer. Only the Immolator has rules compatible with fourth/fifth edition twin-linking.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Orbital Strike.
Need an inquisitor.
If you take an inquisitor, take on of these. It's like a 12" area that your enemy shouldn't go if he values his life. the lance strike is the best, but the melta-torpedo is also great, and the psyk-out warhead sucks.

Eh? It has been conventional wisdom since day one that the Lance was the only good option here, and that the whole thing was useless. With the rule tweak we got in fifth edition, it is now good in Apocalypse, but the Melta is still inferior to the Lance.

Elric is right on all counts. Well, except his discounting that Sisters are one of the best troop choices in the game.

Seriously, 10 girls get BS4, Bolters, 3+ Save, a magic book of not running away, and now their sgt can take an evicerator which is as good as a powerfist against rank&file in 5th ed, better against vehicles, and with faith can be as good against ICs. Their weapon choices are made for 5th ed, with heavy flamers, or dual meltaguns. On top of all this, they have faith, which, when used well, can turn games, and they're 5 points less/model than a marine.

Faith means that they're not as useless in CC as you make them out to be. Sure, you're not going to go charging someone else with them, but neither can an enemy charge you with a lone MC or HQ and expect to get very far.

A bloodthirster charging a unit of marines will almost certainly force them to break - either running them off the board, or more likely, forcing more saves before finishing them the next turn - the sisters have their magic book, so they stay in the fight. Then they start turning their saves invulnerable and tarpit the thing.

Before the new ork codex came out, I'd say that the basic sister unit was point-for-point the strongest troop choice in the game. The lower cost on the ork boyz means that it's not as clear-cut anymore, but the sisters are still in the running.

I asked for criticism, and I admit I was somewhat more lenient on certain units than I should have been, however, i can't help notice you are almost entirely agreeing with the spirit of many of the things that I say. I, also, dislike the inquisitor lord, but wished to point out his virtues, because his flaws are obvious. I really hate arco-flagellants. I fail to see why you like them, yes, their save is invulnerable, but against anything but flamers a cover save is exactly the same, and isn't 35ppm. I was harder on the Canonness because she is more popular, but statline wise she is almost identical to the inquisitor lord, she just gets better parts of the armory. 50 points of stormtroopers are useless, unless i suppose you spam them in chimeras or immolators with full special weapon choices. Otherwise basic sisters are better in all cases, for 1 point most per model. I fail to see how seraphim with 2 flamers is bad against a horde army. Sure, there are much better choices, but such is the nature of an old codex. You pretty much agreed with me on dominions, and as for retributors, well, I rarely have any problems with faith points as I run pure sisters with a canonness, 1-2 squads of dominions, and a bunch of mech sisters, so i have plenty of faith points, and plenty of martyrs. I suppose they become even more worthless if you dont have enough FPs though. 135 points is expensive, but it is a great option, just like land raiders are expensive, but are a great option. I'm not saying they are over-costed, I am saying they are expensive. I said the lance strike was the best option, I dont know why you are taking issue with that. The melta torpedo is ok too, not as good as the lance strike, but I said that.

As far as assassins go, it is a matter of opinion. I have only used the vindicaire 3 times, and each 3 times he performed poorly, but not horrendously. His special ammunition needs to be unlimited, but other than that he is an ok choice for a fun list. I was kinda hard on him, calling him 3rd best. I hate the culexus much worse, but like I said, opinions.

Redbeard wrote:Elric is right on all counts. Well, except his discounting that Sisters are one of the best troop choices in the game. [...]The lower cost on the ork boyz means that it's not as clear-cut anymore, but the sisters are still in the running.

I did not say they were not; only that it was debatable. You included my reasoning for me right there. Boyz are quite possibly better than Sisters, but it really is a tough call.

Canonness Rory wrote:I really hate arco-flagellants. I fail to see why you like them, yes, their save is invulnerable, but against anything but flamers a cover save is exactly the same, and isn't 35ppm.

I never said I liked them. If they did not auto-die, Holy Rage were Fleet and they cost 5-10 points less, I would still not field them because of the Priest. They are a `fun' unit, but nothing more.

Canonness Rory wrote:50 points of stormtroopers are useless, unless i suppose you spam them in chimeras or immolators with full special weapon choices.

110 points of Battle Sisters is also useless. I was merely pointing out that the over-head of a unit was 60 points (a second Troops Choice) less. In an Immolator-spam list, three units of these as your basic Troops are the only way to go. You only add Rhinos after you have maxed out your Immolator-count. In a `conventional' list, Battle Sisters are too valuable to waste camping on an objective. While the Sisters do their Dragoon thing, the Stormies can sit in a Chimera on an objective at far reduced cost of doing the same with Sisters. What is more, the Chimera provides a Multilaser and Heavy Bolter to provide long-range support, which is something else you cannot do with Battle Sisters. Sure, at 'Ard Boyz you were better off with Chimeras of Veterans, but until they is made official this is the best you can do with the Codex. It is also quite standard in competitive fifth edition lists.

Canonness Rory wrote:I fail to see how seraphim with 2 flamers is bad against a horde army. Sure, there are much better choices, but such is the nature of an old codex.

For exactly the same reason you offered in your second sentance. Sure, they do a number of hoard, but there are other options in the codex that do a better job for less points. Ergo, they are a sub-optimal option.

Canonness Rory wrote:i have plenty of faith points, and plenty of martyrs

I have run just about every list there is with the Codex; I have never once run out of Faith Points. In fact, I have never understood why every second Sisters player complains that they do not have enough --- I have always just assumed they do not know how to use them properly. Retributors are a perfect example of this. You are looking at 8 hits from this unit; two Flamers will outdo it, not to mention all the Boltguns. Any other Adepta Sororitas unit in the Codex can get more hits than a Retributor Squad, and I would not bother with Divine Guidance on most of them. What is more, you have no realistic chance of success in a 6-woman Retributor Squad without wasting 20 points on Simulacrum Imperialis. Those points can be better spent elsewhere, and there are far better ways to get AP1 hits from the codex. Considering an Exorcist gets more AP1 hits, at longer range, at longer strength, for considerably less points, and is more survivable... oh yeah, that is why almost no one fields them!

Canonness Rory wrote:135 points is expensive, but it is a great option, just like land raiders are expensive, but are a great option. I'm not saying they are over-costed, I am saying they are expensive.

Canoness ~ 130-160 points
Battle Sisters ~ 200-210 points
Quad-Melta Dominions (some people use these) ~ 200 points
Exorcist ~ 135 points

Being the cheapest unit we field, how is it expensive again?

Canonness Rory wrote:
As far as assassins go, it is a matter of opinion. I have only used the vindicaire 3 times, and each 3 times he performed poorly, but not horrendously. His special ammunition needs to be unlimited, but other than that he is an ok choice for a fun list. I was kinda hard on him, calling him 3rd best. I hate the culexus much worse, but like I said, opinions.

Yes, if we completely rewrite his rules, and probably drop his price considerably, the Vindicare could be a good option. As-is, he has always been considered the second-worst option, only ahead of the almost completely useless Culexus (who is only useful when tooling for a specific list).

Being the cheapest unit we field, how is it expensive again?

*sigh*
because it costs 135 points.

Yes, if we completely rewrite his rules, and probably drop his price considerably, the Vindicare could be a good option. As-is, he has always been considered the second-worst option, only ahead of the almost completely useless Culexus (who is only useful when tooling for a specific list).

So, you're agreeing with me.

As an IG player that loves allies, I thought you did a good job, I found it really helpful. The Book of St.Lucious gives ld but does it have a stubborn like effect aswell?

It just gives you stubborn for 5 points. It is an awesome upgrade. Elric is right about most stuff, like the inquisitors. Take DH inquisitors, they are far and away superior.

Outside of the mystics why are DH inquisitors superior?

Mystics are the biggest reason, but they also have access to a superior armory with the legendary TERMINATOR ARMOR as well as several other goodies. the only 2+ save WH have is the cloak of st. aspira, which inquisitors can't get.

Dominions have their role to fill, the question is if you think it is a necessary one.

They have easy access to Immolators, they can take more meltaguns/flamers in a unit than any other choice, and they can come in smaller units than straight Battle Sisters. They share #1 and #3 with Celestians, but are a little more expensive so they aren't really advantages unless you really want to stay out of Elites choices and use FA slots.

That leaves #2, more special weapons. I'm not sure why you would ever need more than 2 flamers in a unit, but being able to pack 4 meltas in one squad could have uses. Mainly MC killing uses. If you really need/want more meltaguns, Dominions have the smallest point investment for one more special weapon and the best special weapon/points ratio. The question is if you think this is a good or bad thing, as concentrations of power also draw fire.

Dominons also pull up more even with Celestians if you really need a Vet Sgt in the unit, as part the Celestian cost advantage comes from skipping the squad character.

awesome guide. I played against IG/sisters with my nids (stomped em), but he really could look to this guide to get more help!

Have people tried running a sister's army using inducted guard from the new dex? I still would take 1 leman russ though, not a squadron....

DH INQs can get Psycannons as well, so they can actually shoot something if they have to.

I wish Retributors were good, but that would mean that Exorcists would have to be less good. At least Exorcists are a steal. If Retributors could take 4x Multimeltas, though?

I can't really see the use in Heavy Flamers, you're either moving into rapid fire range, or assaulting, but under no circumstances should you purchase them in the slim hope that you actually catch your enemy at exactly the right time, ie. when he mis-gussed charge range or he failed on a difficult terrain test. Maybe firing it out of a Rhino?

Unless I'm mistaken, Rites of Battle relies on the IC being alive, books, not so much when you have redundancy. I'm sure there is a full YMDC on Rites.

I always wanted to try 5x Seraphim with 2x Inferno Pistol Sisters and see how that worked as a tank hunter.

I can't really see the use in Heavy Flamers, you're either moving into rapid fire range, or assaulting, but under no circumstances should you purchase them in the slim hope that you actually catch your enemy at exactly the right time, ie. when he mis-gussed charge range or he failed on a difficult terrain test. Maybe firing it out of a Rhino?

Heavy Flamers are still Assault 1....

Have people tried running a sister's army using inducted guard from the new dex? I still would take 1 leman russ though, not a squadron....

It is difficult, as some of the choices the WH codex lets you take from the IG codex don't exist any more, or just aren't optimal. To get a single Russ you have to take 2 infantry platoons, which don't really mesh well into a sisters army. maybe worth considering at 2000+ points, but at any less points it is better to start as guard and then take sisters allies.

slice of toast wrote:DH INQs can get Psycannons as well, so they can actually shoot something if they have to.

If I run a WH inquisitor lord, it's generally with 3 veteran guardsmen with plasma guns, and it's generally to get some wargear. Liber Heresius rocked in 4th, but doesn't seem to do anything in 5th. :(

I wish Retributors were good, but that would mean that Exorcists would have to be less good. At least Exorcists are a steal. If Retributors could take 4x Multimeltas, though?

Retributors can take 4x MM, but it's pretty expensive to do so...

I always wanted to try 5x Seraphim with 2x Inferno Pistol Sisters and see how that worked as a tank hunter.

Actually pretty well. I include a superior w/ eviscerator as well. Or, at least they did in 4th. With hit&run no longer as much of a sure thing, it might be harder to get them into position. It used to be that you'd assault something, counting on your charge and superior to at least tie combat in round 1, before hit&run towards the tank on your opponent's turn, followed by your own move. This could slingshot them towards the tank pretty fast. I haven't even tried this in 5th though.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Priest.
Only an honorable mention here. There is no worse HQ option, to make them decent in CC, they require too much wargear, and they cannot be attached to any squads that would truly benefit from their special abilities. He unlocks a couple half-decent units though.
Rating: 3

His abilities do work well with sisters repentia, though. Although repentia are a way over costed already, and popping a 65 priest in there (with an eviscerator) just makes them more of a point sink. I still play mine though, as I love the models, never performed well though. Last game they ALL got toasted turn 1 by a drop podding dred with HFlamer.

slice of toast wrote: If Retributors could take 4x Multimeltas, though?

They can though, can't they? (or were you joking). Still ends up being another expensive unit.

slice of toast wrote:
I always wanted to try 5x Seraphim with 2x Inferno Pistol Sisters and see how that worked as a tank hunter.

I'd give them melta bombs too, in that case.


I like having a couple of cheap stormtrooper units. I keep them back and they act like my goalies. grabbing my home objectives at the end, and helping out with any deepstrikers. You definitely made me think about putting them in a chimera. (but .. must.. resist ... urge to buy more minis )

While I agree that Celestine squads aren't the greatest in close combat, and only have a few advantages over battle sister squads, the holy rage does have a benefit that the rest of the army lacks. My opponents use dreadnoughts in almost every list, and the celestines make excellent walker hunters. Two meltaguns, an evicerator or combi-melta and holy rage so their krak grenades hit on 3's. While this doesn't help everyone I've gotten a lot of mileage in that role.

Redbeard wrote:With hit&run no longer as much of a sure thing, it might be harder to get them into position.

That would be true, if Games Workshop made a rule a rule, a gun a gun and a vehicle a vehicle. This is one of those few times where their poor rulings work in our favour. Our Hit and Run rule explicitly states how Hit and Run works: we still use the old rule. We did use the new rule for a couple of weeks there (they FAQed that we had to), but after they pulled the original FAQ and released a somewhat better one, they restored the old rule to us.

Redbeard wrote:
Retributors can take 4x MM, but it's pretty expensive to do so...

MMs are great on vehicles, but on foot infantry? I haven't seen the point since the MM lost the 1" template it had in 2nd.

I'm starting to use Sobs as allies to my space marines and continuing on to start a full army thanks for the tips.

A Vindicare with unlimited special ammunition would be completely broken.

I'm an IG who uses the Sisters and the Witch Hunters as allies, and I found all of your opinions very interesting and I'm considering adapting my army list based on them. Thanks guys!

Fetterkey wrote:A Vindicare with unlimited special ammunition would be completely broken.

How so?

You would have a double 2+ kill sniper against enemy special weapons and Sergeants, a 2+/4+ kill against Assault Terminators and other units with high invulnerable saves, and an incredibly powerful anti-tank attack to boot. Don't forget that enemies get -1 to cover, that you can shoot into assault, and that you have a stealth suit!

All for almost as many points as a full scout sniper squad, which, over the course of 6 turns, can take 5 times as many wounds, causes 3 times as many wounds, is scoring, and doesn't need an inquisitor to use. The "incredibly powerful" anti tank attack averages 10-11 on it's roll of 3d6.

Canonness Rory wrote:All for almost as many points as a full scout sniper squad, which, over the course of 6 turns, can take 5 times as many wounds, causes 3 times as many wounds, is scoring, and doesn't need an inquisitor to use. The "incredibly powerful" anti tank attack averages 10-11 on it's roll of 3d6.

Just a point on the anti-tank vindicare round, yes it is quite nasty.

Str. 3 as a sniper rifle + 3d6 + whatever rending you get.

Canonness Rory wrote:All for almost as many points as a full scout sniper squad, which, over the course of 6 turns, can take 5 times as many wounds, causes 3 times as many wounds, is scoring, and doesn't need an inquisitor to use. The "incredibly powerful" anti tank attack averages 10-11 on it's roll of 3d6.

Scout snipers also don't get to pick their targets, hit and wound on 4+ instead of the 2+ that this hypothetical Assassin would have, and allow armor saves.

Turbo-penetrator rounds are strength 3+3d6 and rending. They have a 42.13% chance of rending with every hit, granting them an additional d3 armor penetration. This disregards the chance of a multi-rend. Turbo-penetrators, if unlimited, would make the Vindicare an extremely potent anti-tank trooper as well as a lethal sniper.

Thanks for the summary!

I feel you did a fairly good job summing up the options. Perhaps you could expand more, and make this into an article?

The issue with summing up units and gracing them as you did, is that people have very strong opinions about their little metal women, and sometimes get upset when their favorite flavor of little metal woman is only ranked at a 3. I feel you should give more explanation and possible uses to units you marked down. Overall a useful review.

Thanks again for taking the time.

(Vindicare is amazing at anti-tank btw. With 5th-ed. rending, and 3d6, he's got a 1/6 chance to rend on 3 dice, ending up at 50%. If you get 1 rend, (adding a d3 to his 3+3d6) the average is around 14.5. Almost enough to pen a Land Raider.)

I like the guide. Personally, I dont mind the WH insuisitor lord. I usually just keep him back and hive him 3 HB warriors. and a few familiars to take hits. It has worked quite well. I dont take a DH inq because as a BT player the points can be spent elsewhere and I like having the psi hood.