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From the Broodlord thread in tactics:

Broken Loose wrote:
Last time I used a Broodlord, I was fighting Necrons.

Remember that "you must attempt to get into base contact" rule?

So I assaulted 20 warriors and a Res Orb lord with a full BL + 11 Stealers. Tendrils on the BL, Acid Maw on the stealers, carapace and toxin sacs for everybody.

Well, he placed his units in such a way that 1 or 2 of my stealers had to enter difficult terrain. I made the roll, but hello Initiative 1.

Independent Character to closest model: Broodlord ends up face to face with the Lord.

Are you saying that you must roll for difficult terrain if one enemy model is in difficult terrain, or that one must move chargers in such a way as to contact a model that might be on the outskirts of combat but in terrain? Would you be required to roll for difficult terrain in this case?

It seems that careful movement of your chargers would mitigate this problem. Also, if no difficult terrain check was rolled, I don't think you are even eligible to enter terrain. Does the defender then say that you must roll difficult terrain after the charge has already begun?

-Cries- Not this issue again
-Cries More-
-Tries to find old thread-

You have to get into btb contact. MUST being the important word here.

First the attacker, then the defender.

The thread is older than most will look I think, Gwar!.

If you mean this thread

Page 34, paragraph 3, sentence 1.

"Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible -- no holding back!"

Bullet point 2, lower on the same page.

"If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model."


Close thread.

Broken Loose wrote:Page 34, paragraph 3, sentence 1.

"Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible -- no holding back!"

Bullet point 2, lower on the same page.

"If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model."


Close thread.

/Open thread

The "If possible" and "attempt" is the sticking point for me. If you do not roll for difficult terrain, it is not possible to go through difficult terrain. Since you cannot enter difficult terrain in that instance, you have attempted to engage as many as possible but it is not possible, so you move them as best you can, which seems to break no rule.

The part that is tricky is when do you determine that you must roll for difficult terrain. What models do you measure from to determine if you must go through difficult terrain? The first? The second? All? If you have already moved a model 6" to get into BTB, and then the last model has a chance to go through, do you roll, or don't you? If you roll and then get a 5, is the whole assault negated?

That is what I'm asking.

That was the exact sticking point in the other thread, IIRC.

If it is possible to move every model into CC without touching the terrain, there should be no reason to roll.
The problem is in measuring, since it should not be done first.

kirsanth wrote:The thread is older than most will look I think, Gwar!.

If you mean this thread

-Shrieks and Cowers in the corner-

This is a rough one. IMO if following the normal assault provisions (such as basing unengaged enemy models if possible), you could get more enemy models in contact via a difficult terrain roll, you have to try. And yes, this can really hurt assaulters.

kirsanth wrote:That was the exact sticking point in the other thread, IIRC.

If it is possible to move every model into CC without touching the terrain, there should be no reason to roll.
The problem is in measuring, since it should not be done first.

Mannahnin wrote:This is a rough one. IMO if following the normal assault provisions (such as basing unengaged enemy models if possible), you could get more enemy models in contact via a difficult terrain roll, you have to try. And yes, this can really hurt assaulters.

This sums up both sides of the argument pretty well.

whitedragon wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:"Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible -- no holding back!"

The "If possible" and "attempt" is the sticking point for me. If you do not roll for difficult terrain, it is not possible to go through difficult terrain. Since you cannot enter difficult terrain in that instance, you have attempted to engage as many as possible but it is not possible, so you move them as best you can, which seems to break no rule.

If moving through difficult terrain up to your maximum assault distance would enable you to contact more enemy models than doing otherwise, you must attempt to engage those models.

The rules are very specific in that you HAVE to get into base to base contact if it is even remotely possible to do so. "No holding back," after all.

Broken Loose wrote:If moving through difficult terrain up to your maximum assault distance would enable you to contact more enemy models than doing otherwise, you must attempt to engage those models.

The rules are very specific in that you HAVE to get into base to base contact if it is even remotely possible to do so. "No holding back," after all.

Yes but, moving through difficult terrain and getting a meager 1" charge may mean less units get into contact, so it's definitely not a cut and dry situation.

easy boys... we don't need a....

It is cut and dried. GW FAQed this in the past. Yes, you must make the difficult terrain test. And the rules haven't changed enough to change their answer

From the 4th ed FAQ:
Q. If a unit charges an enemy unit that is partially in
cover (i.e. some of its models are in cover whilst others
aren’t), does it have to make a difficult terrain test, or can
it choose to just engage the models outside the cover?
A. The assault move should be resolved following the
normal rules for moving charging models, against all of
the models in the enemy unit (the chargers cannot
decide to assault only the enemies outside the cover). If
this means that any of the charging models has to enter
difficult terrain to engage an enemy, the entire unit must
take a difficult terrain test before the first charging model
is moved (so the entire unit could fail to reach
altogether!).

4th!=5th

Therefore, 4th FAQ != 5th rules.

Omg liek its liek old rules liek and liek not official </whine>



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ajfirecracker wrote:4th!=5th

Therefore, 4th FAQ != 5th rules.

Yeah, but considering it was never an errata in the first place, it is a good way to see what they "house ruled it" as.

Sigh... Yes, it's the 4th ed FAQ. I know it's no longer "official" but it does show how they have answered this particular question in the past and shows the studios thought processes.
To me it's obvious merely from the 5th ed rules (as already posted by others) that the difficult terrain test is required. But others appear to need a little more, so I provided this to show studio 'intent'. If some are so disturbed by this to the degree that they forget how to spell, I can live with it....................

edited to fix my own spelling goofs!!