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Made in at
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




Austria-Graz


Fromthe official AT-43 forum:
Martin TERRIER wrote:Here are the planned releases for coming months. This plan will be updated as time goes by to reflect potential changes as well as "newer" news releases.

October
Army box Wolfen
Army box Lion
Attachment box Paladins
Hero box Icquor
Hero box T-Regulator
Unit box Gunmen
Rush n'Crush

November
Hero box Manilia
Unit box knights
Attachment box knights
Army box ONI
Army book ONI
Unit box ONI light enforcer
Hero box samurai Byron Samedi + light enforcer Saturday night fever

December
Army box Ram
Army book Ram
Unit box Abysmal skull
Unit box Necromancer skull
Hero box Azael
Hero box Doriman
Hero box Kallienne
Unit box archers
Hero box daimyo John Priest + medium destroyer Limo
Unit box virus zombies detonator
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

What materials would these be made out of?

any picture so far? o_o

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Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





So 1 Hero and 1 *** infantry for Cogs for the rest of the year? That gives me about a third of the army.

Very disappointed.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

They are trying to release too many lines at once, end up trickling away and getting the customer base fed up.

Red Blok army box has a wow factor as it adds to the army and you can get the rest. Those who bought into COGS will be disappointed to have made the box set investment but not being able to expand on that.

If ONI look to be on the same pattern then there will be nothing for them early new year, pushing my ONI purchase back well into 2010, I will see the other boxsets out before putting cash down for any.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/05 12:15:13


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Augsburg/Germany

Up until now, release happens in a similar way as before. It takes approx 1-1.5 years for an army to be fully released. Which is not that bad for a new system. Even GW splits up its Codex upgrade minis in two to three waves that are distributed over 12 months.

André Winter
L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Orlanth wrote:They are trying to release too many lines at once, end up trickling away and getting the customer base fed up.


There's a reason for that, but I've been sworn to secrecy(and not as part of any Sentinel agreement).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/05 17:29:51


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





To get people to buy every faction? I'm not going to do that. This is becoming more of a collectible game. If I don';t buy stuff when it is first released, who knows if I can ever get it again? That's my big gripe.

Did it really take any other system 1-1.5 years to get their army or was a playable army (or two) available on release?
   
Made in de
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Augsburg/Germany

If you go fo massive battle systems, yes. An even Warmachine/Hordes, Alkemy, Helldorado need/needed more than 1,5 years to get enough minis from every faction out to make them playable in a way that you dont have to take the usual suspects.

André Winter
L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What you're seeing here is a re-launch of the entire AT-43 game I think.

Round one: a bunch of gamers, mostly artistically-inclined sorts from the looks of it, design a game. Lord knows where they get the money from. They work off the idea that there are a lot of people who want to play Warhammer 40,000 but who don't want to build or paint anything. Then they look at other things that people don't like about 40K, like the amount of time it takes to play a game, or the complexity of the rules which can take a while to learn such that new players really don't actually start playing the game competitively for a while.

They take Paolo Parente's DUST idea, supposedly, they turn it into AT-43 rather than making a Wierd War II game. They create simplified rules, they make it really short time-wise to play a game, they design it around 2D terrain with 3D elements sprinkled on like salt and pepper, and they sell pre-paints. They make the Army Books like Codexes, they make the fluff rather 40K-like...recipe for success, right?

Wrong. What may have looked like a good idea to artists who were enamored with their own creations wasn't very smart business-wise. Wargaming is already a niche product...so carving a niche in a niche was probably pretty foolish to try. People can say that Rackham was trying to create its own audience rather than compete with 40K, or for the attentions of existing wargamers, but I think that's bs.

Tabletop wargamers don't mind complexity. If they wanted simple games they wouldn't play tabletop wargames. They don't mind modeling or painting as a whole. Complexity and the hobby aspects are integral parts of this genre of game. It's what the players want...so what happens when you get rid of them?

What happened with Confrontation is a good example, perhaps...they had a stable player base using traditional metal models. I've heard of that game spoken of fondly by WFB and Warmachine players. Supposedly they had some really nice models.

Then Rackham abandons that game and that business model in favor of this new "pre-paints" model, and now you might as well write off Confrontation. It's not even the blip on the radar that AT-43 is. They went from "slightly relevant" to stealth mode.

So Rackham creates AT-43 with this pre-paints model in mind from the start. They price AT-43 pre-paints at regular model prices and sell it to a niche of a niche audience.
They wrote rules which weren't robust and poorly written, they limited themselves to 2D terrain tiles which aren't very exciting and prescribed terrain setups which take away so much of the imagination of tabletop wargaming...and pretty soon filed for bankruptcy protections.

Then they got some venture capitalists who might have had some idea as to how one runs a business.

First, the Army Boxes. If you're going to sell pre-paints, sell at pre-paint prices, i.e. cheap. Whether or not they can sell army boxes for $70 and then continue selling high-priced Unit Boxes and support themselves remains to be seen, but this was a good business move. The sooner they can get Army Boxes out for all the existing AT-43 factions the sooner they can broaden the appeal of the game by offering multiple aesthetic choices. Aesthetics of playing pieces draw a lot of people into a particular tabletop wargame. "I liked the look of this army."

Second, the rules. They've abandoned the old plan of releasing all eight AT-43 armies before doing a rules revision because they've probably realized they don't have the time for it. AT-43 has a horrible reputation for rules and company support for rules updates. Considering AT-43 isn't a hobby at all and is just a game, you can't afford to have bad rules.

This is, in essence, a drawn-out relaunch of the product. They're banking on people not caring about the first two factions, Therians and UNA, because they were the first ones out there. They're "old." I've been selling my Therians and you almost can't give them away. No one cares. I sold my Red Blok for a profit. Still popular, first Army Box.

COGS are new. New energizes the existing player base, so they're the second Army Box.

Karmans are still on firesale all over the place, so they don't seem to be so popular...but new factions sell. So ONI becomes the third Army Box. Try to energize the player-base. See if you can get stable knots of players here and there exposing their friends to the game, and now you have these $70 Army Boxes for friends to sell friends on. It's not a bad idea.

I also think sometimes it feels like a last gasp. Rackham Entertainment isn't going to get another round of venture capitalists to back them if this doesn't work. They need to grow their audience, not just sell to the existing audience which clearly wasn't large enough to support profitability the first time around. They're competing with games that have huge standing audiences which offer ease of finding a game with just about anyone, everywhere. They need to get AT-43 out there and played a lot more than it is now to make the game seem like a viable choice for existing and new gamers who pretty much only see Games Workshop products being played.

Nothing will kill player enthusiasm for a game quicker than not seeing other people playing the game around you.

So there's a real argument for releasing new armies a.s.a.p. to keep new and flashy products coming out to jazz up the player base; and if one reads the existing campaign material, the plans for ONI were clearly laid at the time Frostbite came out, they just got delayed due to the economic troubles. This re-launch is more taking existing design elements from before the restructuring and just releasing them in a different fashion.

Now I think they've gone through most if not everything they had in the hopper prior to filing for bankruptcy protections. It's possible that some work on Krygs was done, but now they really have to wait until 2nd Edition rules come out. Or both need to be worked on concurrently with the 2nd Ed. rules taking precedence whenever resources can't support both projects...but after the ONI Army Box comes out I think the steam of this restructuring will have spent itself a little, and we'll see what happens. Either the game grows or it remains a niche of a niche product and either that's enough profits to justify the company to keep going or they start losing money again and the writing's on the wall.

I'll be keeping an eye on it mostly to decide what to do with my UNA army...if the game feels like it's going out of style time to sell. If the game gets popular and people start playing it around me I have a huge army to play with. Maybe if 2nd Edition rules feature more robust terrain support and a proper mission generator the game might get interesting again...but if I get bored of waiting then the UNA army goes too...and because that army is so difficult to find certain units for, all of which I have due to a lucky find at a FLGS which was willing to give me firesale 66% off prices just to get the crap off their shelves where it had been collecting dust for eight months, that means I can probably make a large profit off selling my UNA than I did with my Red Blok.

So win-win for me. I just want to break even if it comes to that...and in the meantime, I've got Flames of War, 40K, and now Space Hulk to keep me occupied.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/09/08 04:12:12


"Success is moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Cliff Bleszinski

http://www.punchingsnakes.com 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on there being a 2nd edition.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you go fo massive battle systems, yes. An even Warmachine/Hordes, Alkemy, Helldorado need/needed more than 1,5 years to get enough minis from every faction out to make them playable in a way that you dont have to take the usual suspects.


Is this with the recent delays factored in already?

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Platuan4th wrote:I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on there being a 2nd edition.


Meh, it's all the same to me at this point. If the company fails and the game goes away then I can think about all the guff I took from Sentinels and have a hearty laugh. Revenge is a dish best served cold. If the company thrives and the game gets popular I can beat Rackham Entertainment to the punch of updating their UNA product offerings sometime around 2011 and sell my 7k army for a tidy profit, or if the company continues limping along and I get bored with waiting for it to become popular I can sell it for my initial investment, either of which will pay for a Flames of War Afrikacorps Mid-War army.

"Success is moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Cliff Bleszinski

http://www.punchingsnakes.com 
   
Made in ca
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God





Inactive

Cairnius wrote:7k army for a tidy profit, or if the company continues limping along and I get bored with waiting for it to become popular I can sell it for my initial investment.


How much % discount did you get when you first started?

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Made in de
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Augsburg/Germany

@Cairnius
A few points you got right, but overall you are quite wrong. Which is quite surprising since i posted the development of Rackham during the last few years in the Sentinel forum while you still where a Sentinel.

Oh, and it is written Afrikakorps.

@Malfred

Already calculated in. Since we have been working with all companies at some point in the past or are rsponsible for their translations into German and still have very good contacts we don't have to rely on rumors like some others.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/08 10:10:09


André Winter
L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Ah, but I can't even take the usual suspects because there is no unit box available for any Cogs infantry nor is there any on the plan for the rest of the year. I can buy attachment boxes for the 2 units in the box set, but that's it. Otherwise I need to keep buying the army box.

I can see that leading to lots of people selling individual stuff on the aftermarket which I can't imagine is a great turn of events for Rackham, but then I'm not a game company so what do I know?

I still have no idea when/if I'll be able to buy Firetoads of any kind or UNA Steel Trooper attachment boxes. I can buy some lame units like the assault troops or the jump pack guys though.

In any event this news has made me decide to quit buying anything from Rackham. My purchases won't make a difference to them, but they've certainly squandered any goodwill I previously had.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Well...this seems to be par for the course with Rackham. Their customer service is rather incompetent, their public relations are minimal...maybe this is all too little, too late for them. Who knows. It's all become sort of a theoretical concern to me now. I'm not even working on the mission generator I was working on anymore because it's too much of a hassle to get together with the one AT-43 fan I know in the whole local area of Boston. One. That, and eventually it began to offend me that I was essentially doing free work for a company which can't seem to help itself...

Doing free work for a company is like lending toys out to other kids just so they'll be your friend. Maybe I'll just distribute what I had so as to demonstrate just how easy it would be to create proper terrain rules and mission generators for AT-43 by means of showing just how lazy Rackham was in not doing so. Either that, or their intention all along was to create a glorified boardgame like I've argued in the past and which no one has ever really had a good argument against.

Maybe if they get to their 2nd Ed. rules they can turn it into a proper tabletop wargame by liberating players from the tiles and posters with official rules support...

ON EDIT:

OMG you cannot GIVE Therians away on eBay!!! How poorly does it speak for a game when you're offering a nicely-packaged lot of near mint Therians all in the original boxes, about 2500 AP worth, for LESS than firesale prices and they STILL don't move???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/08 14:41:10


"Success is moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Cliff Bleszinski

http://www.punchingsnakes.com 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Rackham have made four critical errors in my opinion.

First is the terrain set up, the game is robbed of its imaginative qualities by the lackluster mapboards. The low walls and crates really do help, but more effort should have been placed into terrain rules and items. playmats could be a bonus if they are large and deal with surface features only, many games have included them.

Secondly, Frostbite. All of it. They should have had a generic supplement that added to rather than rtook away from the main lines. The largest component of the problem is undoubtably the snow camo unit lines which dont fit in with existing collections and generally require repainting, something that defeats the object of At-43 collections.

Thirdly pressing on with more new armies without giving enough cover to existing lines. ONI are too close to Cogs in release time, more Cogs should be out sooner and ONI should be delayeed to the new year to make up. Thwere shiould also be a continuous trickle of items, resin if necessary for uexisting lines. Rackham dont hold the interest on erxisting armies, a big mistake. GW can release and ignore because the armies are large and exist in multiple editions, PP made sure that something new was out for every army every few months thus maintaining the existing focus.

Fourthly the horrible overpackaging of most At-43 units.

I havent mentioned the rules errors in the critical mistakes as nearly all game systyems have rules errors, though a second edition is long overdue. See other thread.

How to fix all this.

1. Ideally Rackham should put off many of its releases and get a 2nd edition out, clearing up the gaping holes in the rules and applying new seperate purchased faction decks of replacement cards.

2. The faction decks should include variants for many existing models, new undisclosed heroes (about ten per faction) and alternate units.

3. Produce a trickle of resin conversion components and character minitures.* Sold by mail order they need have no heavy packing, they dont even need stat cards, being provided for in the faction deck.

4. Produce a large two sided playmat, encourage larger playing surfaces. Through the internal artwork encourage tie-ins for model railway/wargaming terain and produce a standard building pack. Which can be as simple as cardstock walls and plastic flat roofs. For good quality cover have two layer cardstock to adc a measure of depth to the terrain pieces. This can be packaged with light asdembly needed (punching out card, adding the roof sections and possibly sone glue on doors lintels and other features).

5. Keep glossy packaging for the starter sets and army boxsets, they are the sellers. Sell units in minimal packaging boxes to cut down costs and weight. repackage units so you get a full unit in a boxset. Allow the game stats, magazine articles and codex artwork to sell the new units, not windowed boxes with too much presentation packaging.

6. Set up a competent maiol order service, with bits, allow customers to buy custom collections rather than packs and post it in cheap sturdy cardboard boxes. Rackham gains by reducing wasteage, slashing packaging costs and being the point of sale. Customers benefit by getting what they want, no more no less and without the extra loss due to postal costs for bulky crud that is fit only for the bin on arrival.


* As an example the faction deck includes say a Cobra M3 card with two mortars and a Cobra M17 with an EW pod, medium laser cannon. You also get a pair of new heroic pilot cards for a Cobra variant, one mounted, one dismounted. Rackham sells three resin kits based on those four cards for converting existing Cobra or Defender snake models. For a very small outlay you gain a HUGE incrwease to the existing range. With twenty or so extra cards in each faction deck and a total of twenty or so key miniatures each of asingle person or alternate weapon loadout the armies are greatly expanded and thus existing lines constantly have something exiting or new to offer.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Funny how these threads take such an Anti-Rackam turn so quickly even when it something as simple as what to look forward to coming soon, wow.

The new line up looks good to me and I'm looking forward to the new releases but if they go under big deal. My opponent and I still have our stuff so we'll continue to play regaurdless. I'm not into hanging out at my LGS and playing with too many burrito man and it's against my religion to take a bath boy so I could careless if it is the "in thing" to play. I hope they release more but if not thats OK too. Hell I still play SF3D and that hasn't been available since 1984.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Well we have something to say, its constructive too.

If we were 'anti-Rackham' we would just mouth off. What we have to say points out errors while providing answers and options for improvement.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





There's a reason any thread on Rackham gets critical right away: they deserve it. In spades.

"Success is moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Cliff Bleszinski

http://www.punchingsnakes.com 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Hmmm...

Just a fair warning here guys.

The Mod Team will be keeping an eye on this thread, as we have a very vocal pro and anti Rackham camp here on Dakka.

Any debate CAN be a good thing, provided everyone remembers the rules on how debates really should be conducted on Dakka.

OK?
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Just a note of clarification:

I probably shouldn't have used the terms "Pro-Rackham" and "Anti-Rackham" in my previous posts, as it may have seemed that I was labeling one side or the other as such.

So, moving forward, lets all just try and debate the points at hand, with everyone realizing that there will be differences in opinion, and everyone is fairly passionate about this stuff...

Please feel free to PM me or any other Mod if you wish to discuss anything further...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/09 21:19:35


 
   
 
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