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Tactical Marines. You have to take at least one squad, as scouts are decent, but not good enough to be your only objective holders.

How should they be kitted out?

my thoughts:
Missile launcher and flamer are the best IMO.
Missile launcher for it's versatility and power. Flamer because it is free, but is still a good weapon.

I don't choose the multi-melta because it is too short ranged to be a heavy 1 weapon, I dislike the plasma and lascannons because they cost points, and the heavy bolter is outclassed by the missile launcher.

I don't take the melta because it is pretty much only for tank-hunting, and a single melta is not likely to do anything.
I don't take the plasma because it is too expensive, and the flamer does just as good of a job to almost anything.

Mechanized of course. Marines in drop pods could probably take a melta/multi-melta, but I only use drop pods for dreads.

The Revelator wrote:Tactical Marines. You have to take at least one squad, as scouts are decent, but not good enough to be your only objective holders.

How should they be kitted out?

my thoughts:
Missile launcher and flamer are the best IMO.
Missile launcher for it's versatility and power. Flamer because it is free, but is still a good weapon.

I don't choose the multi-melta because it is too short ranged to be a heavy 1 weapon, I dislike the plasma and lascannons because they cost points, and the heavy bolter is outclassed by the missile launcher.

I don't take the melta because it is pretty much only for tank-hunting, and a single melta is not likely to do anything.
I don't take the plasma because it is too expensive, and the flamer does just as good of a job to almost anything.

Mechanized of course. Marines in drop pods could probably take a melta/multi-melta, but I only use drop pods for dreads.

That bolded statement is the one major wrong in your analysis. One melta on a marine with a BS4 can and will do something a lot of the time.

I personally like the ol' Combi-Flamer Sarg. Melta / MM or Melta / RL tac loadout.

I also like to get my marines up close and personal where the melta does some good though.

The reason why I don't think a flamer will do you THAT much good (more than one shot of it) is because you have to be so close your pretty much going to get assaulted or assault before you can shoot again for the most part. Thats where the combi-flamer comes in IMO. But, the drawback of it is that it is 10 points more.

The Flamer / RL is never a bad combo though and is probably the safest.

The flamer has to be within like 7 inches to hit, the melta has to be within 6 inches to melt stuff. And if you're shooting at vehicles you're wasting all those bolter shots.

I admit I love meltas, I do love my meltas, but not on an objective holding unit with a heavy weapon and rapid-fire weapons.

Just a quick point on multimeltas here.
BS4 means they hit on 3+
Roll 2 dice when in range due to being a melta.
Average roll of 2 dice is 7 (as tons of studies have proved)
This gives you 15.
Easily able to get a pen. hit against any vehicle (except monolith)

It is THE best weapon for tank hunting in the SM armoury.

Flamers are good (nice since they are free) but dont give you alot really.
They have very short range, due to that most units will assault you before you get to hit them with it.
Since its mainly designed for anti-horde the last thing you want is to be charged by a large unit.

Heavy weps: (in order of best choice)

Tank hunting - Multimelta, Lascannon, Missile, Plasma cannon, heavy bolter (wont do alot really)

Anti-troop - plasma cannon, Missile launcher, Heavy bolter, Lascannon, multimelta.


Special weapons: (in order of best choice)

Tank hunting: Meltagun, plasma gun, flamer

anti-troop: Flamer Plasma gun (due to range, S and AP) Flamer (2nd due to range) Meltagun.


This is just my opinion, and most peoples will vary.
But when i design units i take them for specific roles in the army, and kit them out accordingly.

no, The best tank-hunting weapon in the armory is the multi-melta, because you don't have to be within 6 inches of the tank.

Knew i would miss something -_-

What i take for a tank hunting tac squad:
7 marines, vet, multimela, melta.

What i take for an anti-tank tac squad:
7 marines, vet with storm bolter (if allowed) plasmagun / flamer (plasma for nids, flamer for orks) Plasma cannon.

The plasma cannon is ideal for anti-troop for a few reasons.
If you think that a missile out guns the heavy bolter against troops then i agree.
But a plasma cannon does the same job as the missile, except it has much higher S and alot better AP.


Yes, plasma has its side effects, but you need to roll a 1 (1/6 chance) followed by a 1-2 (1/3 chance) lol

Meaning that in theory you should be able to go 6 turns and only get 1 gets hot roll.
You should then be fine thanks to the 3+ save


Edit: i used to run 3 dev squads for fun, all of which had plasma cannons (vets had plasma pistols), and on average i lost 2 men per game to gets hot.

The Revelator wrote:The flamer has to be within like 7 inches to hit, the melta has to be within 6 inches to melt stuff. And if you're shooting at vehicles you're wasting all those bolter shots.

I admit I love meltas, I do love my meltas, but not on an objective holding unit with a heavy weapon and rapid-fire weapons.

So what exactly do you do when that vendetta/valk zooms up right next to your 'objective holder' tac squad?

Use harsh language?

MM/HF is a good load out for a tac squad in a rhino and replacing the flamer with a melta is still a solid option.

JD21290 wrote:Knew i would miss something -_-

What i take for a tank hunting tac squad:
7 marines, vet, multimela, melta.

What i take for an anti-tank tac squad:
7 marines, vet with storm bolter (if allowed) plasmagun / flamer (plasma for nids, flamer for orks) Plasma cannon.

You have to take 10 peeps to get anything special for the squad. no melta and no MM at 7 guys.

JD21290 wrote:Knew i would miss something -_-

What i take for a tank hunting tac squad:
7 marines, vet, multimela, melta.

What i take for an anti-tank tac squad:
7 marines, vet with storm bolter (if allowed) plasmagun / flamer (plasma for nids, flamer for orks) Plasma cannon.

At first look I thought you serious about a flamer in an anti-tank unit (Insert ROFLMAO here) , then I realized it was a typo.. LOL

JD21290 wrote:anti-troop: Flamer Plasma gun (due to range, S and AP) Flamer (2nd due to range) Meltagun.

I take it you mean that the flamer is not better than the Plasma gun, or its so good it gets Gold and Bronze in the troop-killing olympics!? LOL

I find that the following tends to work fairly well, but is points heavy.

Squad 1 - Ten men, flamer and missle launcher, rhinio.

Squad 2 - Ten men, plasma gun and plasma, assault cannon Razorback.

Squad 3 - Ten men, multi-melta and lascannon, Lascannon Razorback.

Squad 1 rolls off to do the objective grabbing along with the more assaulty bits of the army, squads two and three sit on my objective/in a good place to shoot and use there vehicles for cover and additional fire power. There's enough dedicated anti infantry and anti tank to make sure most threats never make it to my objective.

But as I said, this is not a cheap option (between 700 and 800 points I think, without the codex to hand) so I often drop either squad two or three in smaller games depending on the foe and how likely I am to need those weapons.

I think the OP is talking about tac squads without rhinos?

It makes a huge difference. If you have rhinos/razorbacks, then one set of weapons is better, if you have drop pods, the answer changes again, and if you're standing in the open the answer changes again.

The Revelator wrote:
Mechanized of course.

Sounds like in a rhino to me

But I'm more and more starting to think that my silly "Foot Slogging Space Marines" idea was more than a little terrible. Marines are good at standing and shooting (or roll up and shoot), not moving and shooting. (Yay rapid fire :| )

Flamer+ML is a good multi-role squad.

Plasma+HB could kill lots of troops...but seriously, the F+ML will do almost exactly the same thing. (Gets Hot! isn't too bad though, SM armor being what it is, it'd be fun to try once)

single Lascannon is an objective camper, what's cool is you can combat squad, take 5 marines (with bolters) in your rhino, and leave the other five with a lascannon on an objective. Then fire that lascannon every turn, it's S9, and your BS4, it will kill at least one tank.

Melta+MultiMelta is for tank murdering. If you really want to get close enough faster, I suppose you could put this squad in a drop pod.

I second He Who Bombs The Stars One Hundred and Nine Times...

anti-tank : multimelta, melta, fist in rhino (235 pts)

anti-infantry : flamer, missile launcher, combi-flamer in rhino (215 pts)

anti- MEQ : plasma, plasma cannon, power sword in rhino (235 pts)

those are the 3 configurations I use for all my tactical squads... work pretty well.

Eyclonus wrote:I second He Bombs The Stars One Hundred and Nine Times...

I almost thought you agreed with me one hundred and nine times, then I read more carefully

I guess way back when, Las-Plas was the 'standard' for most SM army tac squads. Not so much anymore, the melta is too good to pass up, and the plasma costs a bit much for what it does.

Best equipment for all comers Tactical Marines squad in a Rhino seems to be Melta, Missle Launcher with Combi Flamer Sarge in a Rhino. Powerfist is an option if your taking Pedro Kantor for stubborn otherwise keep your squad cheap at 215 points. Melta allows you to threaten high AV vehicles at close range. Missle Launcher is effective against light vehicles and infantry at long range and the combi flamer is good against infantry at close range where you liable to end up in assault soon so the one shot doesn't matter as much.

If your advancing you can move 6 and fire the Melta out the fire point. If your camping an objective you can fire the missle launcher out the fire point which is effective against light vehicles or infantry. You have the option to combat squad leaving 4 Marines and the Missle Launcher in cover while the Melta and Combi Flamer Sarge and 3 other marines advance in the Rhino. Combi flamer because the flamer doesn't get used more then once usually you flame and end up in assault shortly after. You can use combat tactics to fall back but that is not always successful.

Multimeltas seem better suited to be mounted on a vehicle where they can move and fire like multimelta attack bikes, land speeders or mounted on a Land Raider.

Plasma gets hot and is a bit expensive given how easy it is to get a cover save.

Las cannon might be a decent buy if you face mostly Mech lists and see alot of 2+ save monsterous creatures or Obliterators but the Missle Launcher is included in the squad price.

I swear I must be the last person in the world what loves plasma guns.

In all the games Iv played in the last 6 months Iv lost 2 men to gets hot.

Maybe Im just a risk taker but the idea of a gun that can bypass any armor is to good to pass up.

Best loadout for tactical marines?

Jump packs, bolt pistols, chainsword.
OH WAIT LOL.

There is no "best layout." The great thing about Tacticals is that you can outfit them so many different ways to support what else is in your army. They're not your assault troops. They're your objective holders. If you're trying to outfit them to be uber-killers you're doing it wrong IMHO.

My 1,850 list runs two Tac Squads in Rhinos, PG, PC, combi-melta on the Sarge. They support a pair of Vindis, two 8-man Sternguard squads in Rhinos with 2 Meltas and 6 combi-plasmas per squad, and a Termie Libby with Null Zone and Smite in a LRC with 5 TH/SS Assault Terminators.

A friend of mine designed the list for me as I fail at Theoryhammer, but the Tac Squads support everything else nicely. With the PCs they can just use the Rhinos as mobile bunkers on the flanks and put out some appreciable support for the armored phalanx. When and if it comes time for them to move in on an objective they can put out a decent bit of fire on the way in, and then can hold the position against anything that gets close for a turn or two.

But that's just how I run them for that list. They'll be totally different for another list. With one exception: Rhinos. Rhinos are your friend. I think they are always worth 35 measly points for a mobile bunker/piece of terrain you place (moving them where, if they blow up, it works to your advantage).

I like the idea of running:

10 Marines
-Heavy Bolter
-Meltagun
-Sarge -1- Combi-Melts and Meltabombs
-HB Razorback

Its not to expensive and it fits the theme of my army. The HB squad holds back and provides cover fire while the other squad goes forward with its melta stuff to slag tanks, while the razorback provides further cover fire after doing its transport duty. Course I love the humble heavy bolter your mileage may vary.

combatmedic:

I like Plasma Guns. It's good that they down-graded Gets Hot! from xD6 = armour save on x+ back down to xD6 = armour save on 1. S7 is very handy as a man-portable autocannon, and Rapid Fire is effective against infantry.

I like Plasma Cannons more though.

Regarding the arming of Tactical Squads, there is no best loadout, only loads that either complement, duplicate, or synergize with the other parts of your army.

Cairnius wrote:The great thing about Tacticals is that you can outfit them so many different ways to support what else is in your army. They're not your assault troops. They're your objective holders. If you're trying to outfit them to be uber-killers you're doing it wrong IMHO.

I agree and as objective holders and IMHO HW's are a unecessary SHOOT ME sign, HW's belong in your Dev squads or on on your vehicles. You don't need to take a HW in a tactical squad, I keep mine cheap as chips and go 10 men, 1 flamer, melta bombs and a drop pod, thats 210pts (which you can give a DW launcher if you really crave that a ML for an extra 20 @ 230pts) More bolters means you can rapid fire any infantry off the objective, or flame then assault. If something heavy does come your way, those extra five points on the melta bombs come in handy. Ultimatley though it should be the job of your Dev squad to get rid of AV units. Think about it, people are already going to want you off the objective just for being on it, add a HW that is taking down tanks and that's just asking for trouble.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Having options for a FREE HW and not taking it is a very poor decision. If the HW cost more, not taking one might be a good idea, but since tacs are troops, and you NEED troops on objectives to win games, not taking that free ML, HB, or even MM, is a poor choice.

@Keefer: You are putting way to much stock into Dev squads. Yes, having four HWs in a squad is nice, but you are paying much more for them then you would having them in a Tac squad. As Sanguine said, not taking a free HW is a very poor choice. That's what makes Tacs amazing, free weapons that are good, or barring that, cheap weapons that are good as well!

The Revelator wrote:The flamer has to be within like 7 inches to hit, the melta has to be within 6 inches to melt stuff. And if you're shooting at vehicles you're wasting all those bolter shots.

I admit I love meltas, I do love my meltas, but not on an objective holding unit with a heavy weapon and rapid-fire weapons.

I see your point but we are talking about two different things. I assumed that my marines (like I like them) were still in a rhino and using the top hatch to fire out of.

For Marine squads that are going to be in the open, I would probably go with Plasmagun / Missile Launcher or Lascannon with a combi-flamer sarg.

The PG will get some use because they should be shooting at infantry using their bolters.

Warboss Niblet wrote:I like the idea of running:

10 Marines
-Heavy Bolter
-Meltagun
-Sarge -1- Combi-Melts and Meltabombs
-HB Razorback

Its not to expensive and it fits the theme of my army. The HB squad holds back and provides cover fire while the other squad goes forward with its melta stuff to slag tanks, while the razorback provides further cover fire after doing its transport duty. Course I love the humble heavy bolter your mileage may vary.

Problem is you end up trading off on the moral side of things, I think Combat Squads is a potentially effective rule, but all it takes is for an IG platoon, or a vet squad to roll 4s on a Plasmagun and one half of the squad is written off, I am speaking from the position of such a situation.

Heck Vets can take 3 I think and a LasCannon so either the Razorback breaks and melta marines then get hit with up to 6 plasma hits and a LasCannon or the HB squad takes the same and gets a write off.

In the example above, the vets are boosted to waylay marines, 1 str 9 ap2 and 6 str 7 ap2 shots = a potential 1/2 squad wipe. Tacs need to be flexible with weapons in a tourney setting, but in normal play they should be optimized to what they're facing in the next battle.

I agree with Cairnius, the best loadout is what effectively butchers the otherside.

@ Sanguine Sympathy: Errm... not taking HW in YOUR tact squads maybe a poor choice but seeing as i drop pod everything except my Dev squad and 2 LC/ML dreads it is not a poor choice in mine, i take a MotF as well so on top of those two HW dreads i have 2 more with CC and MM along with Ass. Termies with TH + SS. i have enough HW's elsewhere to not need them in my tact squads. In conclusion i believe HW in tact squads limits mobility and makes them a larger target, you think differently, i can see your point in free HW's but i beleive its worth the extra points for the Dev squad

So just take the free heavy weapons, and then only use it when it is opportune. If you drop-pod a lot of stuff a multi-melta in all your tacs may win you games, and if you don't use it, so what, you lost a bolter shot.

Mmmm... Ok... i'll have to play test that before i dispute it, i can see what your saying. Thanks for the fresh perspective

Warboss Niblet wrote:I like the idea of running:

10 Marines
-Heavy Bolter
-Meltagun
-Sarge -1- Combi-Melts and Meltabombs
-HB Razorback

Its not to expensive and it fits the theme of my army. The HB squad holds back and provides cover fire while the other squad goes forward with its melta stuff to slag tanks, while the razorback provides further cover fire after doing its transport duty. Course I love the humble heavy bolter your mileage may vary.

You also have the option of keeping them together and using the RB for fire support or cover.

I have three styles of tac squad that I use with two of each available:

Powerfist + meltagun + heavy bolter + multimelta razorback.
This is the type I use the most - The mobile half of the squad is fairly potent anti-tank and the heavy bolter half of the squad hanging back. Doubled up, these squads provide my core anti-tank as well as ten marines and 2xHBs to sit on an objective.

plasma pistol + meltabombs + plasma gun + plasma cannon + TLLC razorback
These tend to sit back as a squad and shoot. The PC is a good all-rounder even though it's not cheap.

powerfist + flamer + missile launcher + TLHB razorback.
Does a bit of everything.