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OK, firstly conflict of interest, I'm a daemon player.
Secondly, I've had possibly one too many in the pub tonight.

Whilst in said pub we were talking about our gaming, and one of my mates (a SW player) was saying how loses against my daemons don't count as they're daemons.

NOw I'd love to say it's only him, but quite a few people have said daemons are over powered, and that in 40K losing to them is almost ineveitable and winning is a rare and skilled appropach.

As a daemon player, when i've battled aganist them with my CSM, i've always won, i guess i know the weakness's and so have an advantage, but the question i have is,

Are daemons ahead of the power curve, as a player and opponent of them i'd say no, that there is an almost easy way to beat them.

Thoughts, comments?

Daemons in 40k overpowered? whatever they're smoking, I'd like to have some. Daemons have many advantages, sure, but the daemonic assault rules strips most of them away. Not to mention the inherit randomness of the whole army.

Unless he's playing Fantasy, tell him to go soak his head.

I've found Daemons to be extremely good against people who haven't played against Daemons much.

Demons are not overpowered, give him some tips on how to beat them and casauly suggest that he should join Dakka to gain some exp

I really don't care that it's a 5+ Invul, it's still a 5+. Yes, one that can usually always be taken, but still a 5+.

Tell your marine buddy to buy Flamers and Heavy Bolters. Lots.

ive beaten deamons with vanilla marines non mech, what kind of list does he run and what deamon list do you use

There is one good thing and bad thing about them if built right. They win big or lose big. I think they really depend on the roll of their dice ALOT. Mostly when DS onto the table because on the first turn you cant use banners. Then after that you roll the rest of your army in reserves.

Daemons OP? No. Because no. Recently i watched my two friends duke it out, nids and daemons. A single gaunt killed a blood thirster just by existing. The blood thirster scattered his DS 11" and landed on a gaunt, then was destroyed via DS mishap. he also lost his blood letter retinue in that DS. about 500 pts out the window

Don't get me wrong, I think demons can be nasty to face sometimes. However, the random nature of the army, not to mention their ability to get COMPLETELY neutered by a single Null Zone Librarian limits them IMO.

It all depends on how they are built. I have played against a daemon player and annihilated him with my Salamanders, because he did not focus his build. Then on another note, Catpeeler has a daemon force that is a pain in the ass. When him and play it usually turns into a bloodbath and a close game either way. Another thing that he does that works great is he puts all his big assault units down first. I can personally vouch that this may seem overpowered, but it really isn't that bad.

If someone is claiming overpowered daemons tell them to use target priority. All you have to do is focus your firepower and you can slaughter daemons. (remember they have to sit there and try to survive) Those are just my 2 cents.

I played my friend who just started playing Daemons and it was his first game with em...

He DS a Bloodthirster near my army, which was subsequently shot up by me leveling all Tau guns at it. My 22 Man Kroot squad was killed off by 11 Bloodletters in CC.

Plaguebearers are beastly to kill. He assaulted my Shas'O and the only thing that saved me was my armor save. That T5 is broooootal. Thankfully I just ended up winning by 1 every round and slooowly killed em off.

I'd say daemons are tough, but this is my only experience with em.

up against Mech lists most deamon armys (except Khornzilla) cant do much unless they spam the soulgrinders

btw does he take any soul grinders

I disagree, a tzeentch shooty force has a decent game against mech. S8AP1 shots that hit on 2+ are nothing to laugh at, especially now that in 5th you can assault a unit that's transport just died if you shot the transport.

I think the two real issues with daemons are the inherent randomness in the army, and the sheer number of spoiler powers that work against daemons, either specifically or indirectly.

The randomness factor has been gone into above.

The spoilers:

Guard can take a guy who messes with your reserves - when you have to have half your army in reserve.

Marines can take a power that makes you re-roll every save you pass.

Any imperial army can ally in mystics and inquisitors with daemon specific gear.

Space Wolves are getting weapons that wound on 2+, and psychic powers that deny daemons the advantages they need to compensate for their randomness.

Pretty much, daemons are easy to rig games against. This will always stop them from being too popular - as they get more popular, the anti-daemon toys will make them lose.

Overpowered? Only in the sense that the tactics that most players are used to don't translate very well to an all deepstrike opponent. In addition, the current metagame favors anti-mech builds, which don't really faze daemons.

A lot of players--I'd even go so far as to say the majority--tend to figure out one or two ways that their armies "work," and end up using those same tactics over and over and over. When confronted with a situation where they *don't* work, a good player will try to figure out why, and then adjust their play to compensate. Most players, unfortunately, will cry cheese.

Now, those guys? I drink their tears like wine.

New IG > Daemons

Officer of the Fleet + 2 Mystics + Some mad killy tank = Daemons player poisons your children 15 years from now.

WFB Daemons? Mean.

40k Daemons? Meh.

Deamons are powerful in a Tourney environment where most players are unprepared or do not have the powers/wargear to hurt deamons. Contrary to some opinions, they do have the tools to stop mech thanks to bolt of change and soul grinders.

They suffer with opponents knowing the local meta game and will put some gear or units to stop deamons.

If led by an experienced player, they go from mediocre to damn good.

The Deamon players I know love officers of the fleet as in most objective missions, it delays their scoring troops from coming to claim objectives and it means less turns they get shot up. As for killy IG tanks, I have seen A warhound next to a few mystics shoot up a 15 man plaguebearer squad and only reduce the squad to 9 models.