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Hi, im buying a big daemon army (tzeentch) on sunday, but i don`t want it to be cheesy. Yes, im using flamers (they look really cool ) and like 60 horrors, loc, some heralds and some air-sharks.
The question is, how can i play them non-cheesy but still have a good list. Daemons are really overpowered, but i love the tzeentch fluff. Im gonna play my pals LM list (a little cheesy list) around 2500pts.

Basicly, all i want to know is daemon tactics that are fun but not over-cheesy. Im outta money, so i play with what i have

Can't see how a Tzeentch only army is non-fluffy. The Chaos Gods are just as likley to act on their own as they are to unite with one of their brothers.

Pure Tzeench Demon armies are very fluffy but still exceptionally cheesy.

Fluff has zero relation to an armies effectiveness.

No special character, no items/abilities, take screamers, run flamers in the open or 3 in 1 units, no 2nd unit.

Then your opponent might stand a chance...

Sorry, fluffy is a bad word for it, i mean... just not that f*****g cheesy. Maybe Gw should add 5-6pts for each tzeentch model (exept loc, they should add like 100pts on him ).
I wrote an army list:

Lord of Change:
Immortal Fury
Tzeentch Lvl 3
Power Vortex

Herald:
Wings, BSB, Unholy Victory, power Vortex

Herald:
Chariot, Flames, Master of Sorcery

25 Horrors:
Std, Mus, Changeling

19 Horrors:
Std

10 Horrors

5 Furies

2x3 Screamers

4x Flamers, Pyrocaster

5x Flamers, Pyrocaster

2500pts(ish).

I know it`s cheesy, but that`s what i`ve got. C&C?

I'd say that's not as bad as you could make it so go for it.

Honestly, you really shouldnt care what anyone else thinks when it comes to your army. Yes, Daemons are hard as nails. Yes, they can rickroll/facestomp/wtfbbqpwn pretty much any army with a modicum of skill. However, it is your $$, your passion, and your paint job. If you like Tzeentch, buy em and paint em. If you like Flamers, hell, take 3 units of 6! The points you pay there are going to make you loose out somewhere else.

Any opponent who whines about facing an army and automatically assuming they will lose deserves to lose. Daemons are tough, yes, but plenty of armies could easily smash a Tzeentch pure army...one or two viscious assault units in your lines, and they will roll you up. flamers are great...but they suck against heavy troops such as knights and so forth.

Play what YOU want to play. Its your hobby and your game. I would play whatever you bring. The Cheesier the better, its more rewarding when/if I win!

Thanks, i`ve seen your reports, nice army

No matter what you do, people are going to look down thier noses at a pure tzeentch daemon army. No matter what composition you take, people will still feel the same.

Just take what you want, just don't go over the top.

...

Lord of Change, Master of Sorcery, Dark Majester
Herald on Chariot.
Herald on Chariot.
Herald BSB on foot. Icon of Despair (-2 ld to prevent charges.. or make him fly along with the Lord to make the most of terror. \o/)

2 fat blocks of Horrors with command.
2-3 small blocks of Horrors, to act as redirectors.
2+ units of 5+ Furies. Redirectors, blockers, etc.
2 units of 5 Screamers.
2 6 strong units of Flamers.

Rough list.

No special chars.

Sorry, the guy i was gonna buy it from backed out ( ), so i`ll have to buy it new. Prices for tzeentch are very high (i hate metal core troops), so i`ll have to combine khorne or slaanesh in. I don`t have the book, but here`s what im gonna include:
GUO and 10 plaguebearers to watch my flanks.
Bloodthirster and Bloodletters for a strong core.
The masque and some daemonettes to redirect and flank blocks.
Flamers and a tzeentch herald for shooting.
Some furies for march blocking.
I may drop the PB or GUO for a nurgle beast to save money. My core will be around daemonettes (fast) and bloodletters (strong), because they are both plastics.
So, what do you think? I don`t have the book yet so i can`t make any army list, but this is what i`ll try and get.

You can quite easily convert and paint VC plastic ghouls into either Horrors or Plaguebearers quite convincingly.


Check the link in my sig for my DoC on the cheap, or go here: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43965

Yep! Voodoo has got the idea! Ghouls are a great alternative to gribbly Daemons! I tried my hand at a few myself! see below!

Nice man! Im going to buy a lot of khorne, so an army list is coming soon

Easy solution for Flesh hounds. Use chaos Warhounds...they look daemonic enough, and just paint em brass and red and they look just like flesh hounds....

20 hounds = $44 approx

20 Flesh Hounds = $166 approx


Pure win!

Yes, Demons are the most broken list out there, but that is not your fault. GW allowed them into the army selection for WHFB, so if you want to play them, then play them. It is going to be up to your opponent (and the rest of us) to come up with new strategies to beat them.

But to answer your specific question, avoid the LOC and flamers, but then your list might not be that competitive.

HiveFleet wrote:Easy solution for Flesh hounds. Use chaos Warhounds...they look daemonic enough, and just paint em brass and red and they look just like flesh hounds....

20 hounds = $44 approx

20 Flesh Hounds = $166 approx


Pure win!

Yep, already have 4 units of them painted. To be honest, they look a little weedy for what they do, but at $44 for 4 units of 5, you really can't complain. I need to get some pics up of my army.

Honestly, one of the most fun parts of WHFB for me has been coming up with cheap-ass money saving conversions.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

HiveFleet wrote:Easy solution for Flesh hounds. Use chaos Warhounds...they look daemonic enough, and just paint em brass and red and they look just like flesh hounds....

20 hounds = $44 approx

20 Flesh Hounds = $166 approx


Pure win!

Yep, already have 4 units of them painted. To be honest, they look a little weedy for what they do, but at $44 for 4 units of 5, you really can't complain. I need to get some pics up of my army.

Honestly, one of the most fun parts of WHFB for me has been coming up with cheap-ass money saving conversions.

Too weedy for my tastes...
If youre going to do that you'd better sculpt up some collars and some extra muscle. I would be very annoyed with any one who just tried to pass off red warhounds as fleshhounds against my WoC army.

Leith wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

HiveFleet wrote:Easy solution for Flesh hounds. Use chaos Warhounds...they look daemonic enough, and just paint em brass and red and they look just like flesh hounds....

20 hounds = $44 approx

20 Flesh Hounds = $166 approx


Pure win!

Yep, already have 4 units of them painted. To be honest, they look a little weedy for what they do, but at $44 for 4 units of 5, you really can't complain. I need to get some pics up of my army.

Honestly, one of the most fun parts of WHFB for me has been coming up with cheap-ass money saving conversions.

Too weedy for my tastes...
If youre going to do that you'd better sculpt up some collars and some extra muscle. I would be very annoyed with any one who just tried to pass off red warhounds as fleshhounds against my WoC army.

LoL, if it offends you so much, how about you buy them for me? I have a baby to feed and a wife to keep happy...plastic monsters painted properly is good enough for me.

Ok, i have: bt, 3 heralds (one in chariot, one on bc), 43 bl and 3 bc. It is kind of a 1D army, so im gonna get some nurgle when i can afford it.

depending on what your flavor is, Nurgle wont help this list all that much. I would do

BLOODTHIRSTER
obsidian armor
immortal fury
firestorm blade

Herald in Chariot.
Daemonic Robes.
firestorm blade

Herald on Jugger
BSB - Standard of Sundering/Icon of Despair. (either or)

Skull Taker on Jugger

10x Bloodletters / no sure about taking command
10x Bloodletters
10x Bloodletters
10x Bloodletters

3x Bloodcrushers.

Now...to add....

6x Flesh Hounds
6x Flesh Hounds
6x Flesh Hounds...

anything else....when in doubt...add more Crushers....put the herald in the Crusher unit...use the Bloodletters to Block Flanks or Hold Quarters, Flesh Hounds and Thirster just punch em straight down the enemies throat....he has to make a choice...take down the Flesh Hound/Thirster charge, or the Crusher unit of doom....

Might work...

dont ask me, i just work here

Leith wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

HiveFleet wrote:Easy solution for Flesh hounds. Use chaos Warhounds...they look daemonic enough, and just paint em brass and red and they look just like flesh hounds....

20 hounds = $44 approx

20 Flesh Hounds = $166 approx


Pure win!

Yep, already have 4 units of them painted. To be honest, they look a little weedy for what they do, but at $44 for 4 units of 5, you really can't complain. I need to get some pics up of my army.

Honestly, one of the most fun parts of WHFB for me has been coming up with cheap-ass money saving conversions.

Too weedy for my tastes...
If youre going to do that you'd better sculpt up some collars and some extra muscle. I would be very annoyed with any one who just tried to pass off red warhounds as fleshhounds against my WoC army.

Sorry, but no. They're pretty much painted just like red/grey/bone hounds and are quite nicely unified in color. Any sculpting or conversion work I'd have tried would have made them look worse than the basic model.

If you wouldn't want to play a pickup game that's OK, but this is largely just a tournament force. So it pretty much only plays against my friends and local club mates/tourney players and people at the actual tournament.

The 18 hounds are fixed (i got 20 of `em ).

You don't *have* to go for the throat when you play.

That said, LM aren't ranked too far down from DoC, so it should be a good game. Let us know how it goes!

Excellent! You will find that will go a long way to making your army that much more lethal. Not that Daemons need that, but it is the principal of the thing!

I like Voodoo, enjoy making cheap/ budgetted armies. Strangely our armies look very similar, i wonder who could have arranged them??

Anyway, I plan on making the plague bearers out of ghouls within the next few months. I think they look sharp.

LM are an option instead of demons. Saurus warriors can be very fighty with their 2 attacks base, and have quite the impressive armor save. You can build quite the effective balanced list for all comers.

Im not playing daemons to be , im playing them because i like them
Anyways, here`s a list:

Greater: 545pts

Chaoshowl The Hateful
BT, OA, FS, IF: 545pts

Lesser: 565pts

Elfeater
HoK, SH: 130pts

Blood-drinker
HoK, JN, SH: 180pts

Killfester
HoK, Chariot,SH, FS: 215pts

Minor: 693pts

The Bloodclaws
BL x 15, FC: 210pts

The Soul-Eaters
BL x 14 FC, IoEW: 223pts

Khorne`s Messengers
BL x 15, FC, BoS: 260pts

Beasts: 700pts

Dogs of Blood
FH x 6: 210pts

The Hunters
Same as above

The Hammer of Khorne
JN x 4: 280pts

2496pts

So, what do you think? My tactics is to use the BT and JN to rush forward on one flank and the dogs at the other. The BL just run over the table and get stuck in. My chariot can take on any low strength enemy (OTC the IH are strength 5, HoK with strength 8 and JN get to hit first). All the models are at least STR and and WS 5

I think it would certainly hurt anyone it touches. I am still of the opinion the Bloodletters would do better in smaller, more sacrifical units, but play a few games with them and let us know how it does!

I am going to be testing my Bloodthirster with a trial of Fire, as he is coming to ardboyz as a fresh faced virgin! Should be fun

Thanks, im gonna try both big and small units. Good luck on ardboyz

"How can i play a non cheesy daemons?"

Don't put the models on the table .

Lol yeah, why not

I`m entering a tournament in a few weeks, im gonna make a 1750pts list before then