Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Which is more formidable?

An elite force, based around uber-units and vehichles with much shooty/killy power?
Or a horde of critters/boyz/men ready to drown the enemy in their unstoppable tide?

That really depends on the army, now doesn't it?

But let me give you a nice general hint:

There's a reason why Orkz are top tier and Daemonhunters are garbage tier.

Deamonhunters are garbage tier? >_<'

Normally i like the horde type , but that doesnt stop me from getting elite units that look really good.

Then i'll build on them till the base count adds to "horde amount" which then is like 3 armies larger than intended point wise ><

I always prefer Elite armies.
Less models to paint, more challenging to play, and less models to transport.

Elite all the way....Though there is something exciting about charging 300 Conscripts into CC on your orders
But I'll still say elite. They may not be as good but they're cooler (coming from a Khorne/Daemonhunter player)

And this thread needs a poll too I think.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Deamonhunters are garbage tier? >_<'

When all you can really rely on is LR spam, it says something about your codex.

Elite. You can spend more time on individiual models and less time on your 180 shoota boyz.

Canonness Rory wrote:Elite. You can spend more time on individiual models and less time on your 180 shoota boyz.

And that's why I still love my Grey Knights

There's a poll available now. Enjoy!

its army dependant really. Some armies have expensive units and therefore can't 'hoarde' a battlefield.

It doesn't look too good for the hordes... =(

I like hordes, they look great on the tabletop and dominate games. The downside? unpacking 40 conscripts and 50 G-men, for a 500 point game, crushing the foe in 2 turns, then be left stareing at 90 models that only got to play for 15 minutes. Or even worse, just setting up said guardsmen only to find out that just before the first turn, mommy says my opponent needs to be home for dinner...

There is a reason that I am now turning to mech vets and big tanks, I only have to deploy 10 models at 1500 points, and hope that my chimeras don't get wrecked.

More meat for the grinder!

I voted for Horde.

At this level of generalization, it's hard to make a call, but one constant throughout GW history is that more dice is better. I'd think that'd translate into Hordes being better as a general "concept" for an army.

It really depends on the army, but as an Eldar player I much prefer a smaller model count of ore effective models.

I like the contrast between horde of small models with a few giant monstrous ones wading through the ocean of the lesser ones.

gaunt spam + carnifexes

lots of eldar infantry sized model + 3 wraith lords

etc etc

Conscripts + Leman Russes?

Its the opposite of min-maxing! Your opponent doesn't have to worry about target priorety anymore.

Of course, you are going to represent the biases of your army. I still feel that if you take the time to buy, glue, paint, and lug around 200 orks, you almost deserve to win right there, and I feel that these are the most effective armys out there. Nob bikers just shear down the model count to a reasonable number without taking away much effectiveness.

I voted horde, because i think probability leans in horde's favor. More chances to hurt em = more chances to win. But i think elite armies are cooler + more rewarding to win with. "Daemon Hunters: Losing with the most style!"

Elite: Cause its funny when your opponent laughs at your eight Khorne Berzerkers in a rhino, but he's not laughing three turns later when they destroy his shooty terminator squad and then start ripping apart his troops.

I like Horde...sort of. Instead of a tide of models, a hail of bullets is what I like to aim for

Horde.

Cover is the great equalizer of 5th ed. More dice is better than "better" dice.

@sourclams: Ah yes! Good point, mate. The horde provides a nice mesh of cover to those behind them.

Today's game is a testament to more dice = better... I got creamed, ha ha ha.

Fafnir wrote:That really depends on the army, now doesn't it?

But let me give you a nice general hint:

There's a reason why Orkz are top tier and Daemonhunters are garbage tier.

Are you smoking something? Daemonhunters (if played correctly) are above orks. Orks are NOT top tier.

Elite.

Horde is only intimidating to some armies. Those armies forgot their flamers.

EzeKK wrote:
Are you smoking something?

I wish.

Daemonhunters (if played correctly) are above orks.

Every army played correctly with the properly tuned list with the right dice rolls will be above another army. But the fact of the matter is that without tuning specifically for orks(thus leaving the list at a disadvantage against everything else), DH are at a disadvantage. Orkz pack as much versatility as DH(albeit in a completely different way), with the ability for much more volume and variety, which makes them harder to counter.

Orks are NOT top tier.

The amount of green tide, nob bikerz, and general orkiness to be seen at tournies, and the amount of that that actually works, says otherwise.

Horde is only intimidating to some armies. Those armies forgot their flamers.

Flamers are great and all, but they're not going to save you from a unit of nob bikerz. Especially since they can get a first or second turn charge, depending on the deployment. And even a Land Raider isn't safe against 3-4 Powerklaws.

And against the green tide, flamers are definetly useful, but even the green tide has plenty of ways around it. PAGK do not want to engage in close combat against orkz, and that's where you need to be to use your flamers. With a good Waaagh!, the orkz can bypass the flamers altogether, and get right into combat with you. Terminators will clean up the boyz like nothing out, but for the points you have to invest in them, it's not worth it to have them fighting the cheaper gits.

And let's not forget the orkz' mechanized options. Flamers aren't likely to break a trukk, and 12 burnas riding in one are more then likely to absolutely destroy an entire unit of PAGK, and even test the mettle of terminators.

And then there are the Lootas, which make you feel pretty sorry you even took that flamer when a psycannon could probably help a lot more.

I play both orks and DH more than any other army. Although i love GK (best fluff in the game IMO and coolest looking models) I'd rather play orks anyday of the week if i want to win. DH can win, if played well. But it's just easier to win with orks. Hopefully that all changes if DH ever get a new codex.

Nob bikerz=top tier or damn close
green tide= its pretty high up there, along with speed freakz, and ork mech
daemon hunters= not even kind of top tier, but good players can win with anything if they're good/lucky enough

Breaking this down, and thinking about how I play orks, it occurs to me that PAGK would actually ruin my day.

See, I never put armor on my nobs, I figure why do that when I can't take that save against power weapons and I have a 4+ save in that mob anyways for non power weapons, I'd rather have an invulnerable save....

Guess who ignores invulnerable saves?

Grey Knights are mobile as well with their assault weapons, but I do agree that PAGK vs Orks would be a very rough fight for the knights, especially with battlewagons bearing down on them. The only chance is to try and pop every single one of them with lascannon shots, but its nearly impossible to do that before the wagons get on top of you.

starbomber109 wrote:Breaking this down, and thinking about how I play orks, it occurs to me that PAGK would actually ruin my day.

See, I never put armor on my nobs, I figure why do that when I can't take that save against power weapons and I have a 4+ save in that mob anyways for non power weapons, I'd rather have an invulnerable save....

Guess who ignores invulnerable saves?

A squad of 10 PAGK with two psycannons is going to cost north of 300 points.

And you still get cover.

So yeah, 1 on 1 a PAGK is going to give even Nobz a bit of trouble, but they're only T4 MEQs and eventually you're just going to drag them down.

Considering Ten nobs with proper equipment actually cost more than the Grey Knights.