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starbomber109 wrote:Considering Ten nobs with proper equipment actually cost more than the Grey Knights.

they still got 2W a piece tho, and if you gear em properly with all different equipment, those PKs are gonna open GK like tuna cans....

starbomber109 wrote:Considering Ten nobs with proper equipment actually cost more than the Grey Knights.

9 Nobz, 1 painboy, 3 powerklaws, waaagh! banner, bosspole, cybork bodies = 375 points (scoring with Warboss)

9 Nob Bikerz, 1 painboy, 3 powerklaws, waaagh! banner, bosspole, cybork boddies = 625 points (scoring with Warboss)

9 PAGK, 1 Justicar, 2 Psycannons = 325 points (scoring if not taken as Fast Attack) (although it's worth noting that it's usually more economical to run multiple small PAGK units to maximize psycannon output)

9 Terminators with 1 psycannon, 1 Brother Captain with psycannon, holocaust = 530 points (non-scoring) (Although it's worth noting that a unit of terminators with this much of an investment in it would probably replace the brother captain with a Grand Master, in which case, the cost is likely to go up by at least another 100 points to account for the added cost of the GM, and the wargear you may take)

7 Terminators with 1 psycannon, 1 Grand Master with psycannon, holy relic, holocaust, land raider transport = 797 points (non-scoring)

In terms of point-to-effectivness ratio, Orkz are miles above GK. Pretty much every army has the advantage over Grey Knights in that respect. We pay through the ass for our stuff.

What about morale for the enemy?
I once read somewhere in GW that if your opponent thinks to himself "There's no way I can kill all that" then the battle is already won.

I honestly do not find elite army's anywhere near as impressive or imposing. (Except Eldar which are something akin to a gay pride parade)

sigh.... whenever i field GK, I have to wait for my opponent to quit laughing and roll for mission scenario so we can play. This usually lasts a few minutes. Makes it all the sweeter if I can pull the win outta my ass though.

I prefer playing and building elite armies because I want to take the time and make each model kind of unique which I don't have time to do if I'm making 100 conscripts. Also being employed, going to college and running a full color web comic means I paint once or twice a week. Mob painting also seems like more an assembly line chore than something I'd do for relaxing. So for me time and fun are my main factors.

Everyone's talking about Nobs and Nob bikers which is all well and good, but for them to be in sufficient quantity to harm PAGK on their own wouldn't you have to be playing an ELITE army? Which begs the question; how the hell can you argue Nob Bikers are a horde choice?

Horde.

Orks > PAGK. I play both, and i love my GK, but I am also a realist. My battlewagon list would steamroll any GK build. You simply spend too many points on models.

The best GK build I have come up with uses 3 land raiders and 2 inquisitors with 2 mystics each. The GM has a psycannon and there are a few more spread out and I sit back and shoot. That is an over simplified synopsis of the build and strategy, but it works better than any I have tried over the years. Works exceptionally well against deep strikers.

Well orks are the new cat's mewow for now but all swarming army's have there up and downs. But elite Armes such as eldar and tau also have prolbem's to solve. Even if you have a great army list the next time you play that player he is going to make a list to counter your last list. So with that in mind all army's have nothing to do with it its your list vs there list and the tactics you us also a bit of luck.

Horde armies are usually harder to beat than elite armies. It doesn't matter what armor you have if you can roll enough dice.

I play horde Tyranids and elite Eldar so obviously, I like both.

Greets
Schepp himself

There are advantages to playing both.

Horde
* Having more models than your opponet can possibly kill in 5-7 turns.
* Able to cover multiple objectives with your army at once.
* Able to project power in all sections of the board at once.
* 150+ models look good when all painted on the tabletop.

Elite
* Less models means less $$$ and painting invested.
* Less models means less time to play a game -- a huge advantage in 2 hour tournament games.
* Scale well as points increase over 1500.

When playing in tournaments like 'ard boys, there is no practical room for footsloggin horde armies. They don't scale well enough and take to long to play.
When playing smaller games with no time limit, horde armies do surprisingly well.

I play necrons and tyranids and switch it up according to mood.

I like both equally although I have far more experience with necrons.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Horde.

Orks > PAGK. I play both, and i love my GK, but I am also a realist. My battlewagon list would steamroll any GK build. You simply spend too many points on models.

The best GK build I have come up with uses 3 land raiders and 2 inquisitors with 2 mystics each. The GM has a psycannon and there are a few more spread out and I sit back and shoot. That is an over simplified synopsis of the build and strategy, but it works better than any I have tried over the years. Works exceptionally well against deep strikers.

It's true, but then PAGK usually lose to most people to be fair (I play them too). It's the trouble with a 25pts Troops Choice. But then PAGK are certainly the extreme end of the Elite Scale. And army Like CSM with Zerkers is certainly elite. So is a lash list. Both will certainly give orks a run for their money. But it really all depends on the army and the player in the end.

I cant comment on which is better, but personnaly I like Elite.
I feel like the most Fun match ups are elite versus horde. Its fun to see a small group of guys kill mass amounts of small stuff on the tabletop. Like when 10 berzerkers charge 30 boyz. Its fun.

Elites I believe are much better. Hordes can overwhelm them but a good general should be able to use his elites effectively. A horde list is much easier but is not stronger. It may be stronger for beginner but a wiser general with much more experience is deadly with an elite force.

Hordes. . . . . . nothing better than lots of dice

I always go for elite. Even with my IG army I plan on using a lot of veterans and going mechanized.

Look at it this way, if your sitting across the table from an army would you rather

1) Win or lose, you took out a LOT of models
2) Win or lose, you likely took out only a few

It's just more satisfying to see that you took down 20 or 30 guys even though you lost, or win by taking out 90