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What are you supposed to do if a unit can't get out of a drop-pod after it lands? We ruled that it "died".

funnily enough the rules for transport cover this ...

"Once the Drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." page 69 codex SM

so what happens normally when you can't disembark?

"If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark" page 67 BGB

So Raw they sit in the drop pod till they can get out ... funnily enough they can shoot since its open-topped. So getting out isn't impossible.

Hmm, that's actually a very interesting situation.

Agreed, I'm more bewildered by the setup that caused this result then the question itself.

Tri has the rules I would have quoted above. They wait until they're able to disembark.

MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:What are you supposed to do if a unit can't get out of a drop-pod after it lands? We ruled that it "died".

Can you please specify the situation? Where did the Pod land so that the passengers were unable to disembark? Was it surrounded by enemy units?

It must have landed in a special Drop Pod Sized Hole in a large unit.

Gwar! wrote:It must have landed in a special Drop Pod Sized Hole in a large unit.

Yeah, something like that. Something bizarre and uncommon.

Maybe it came down into a narrow courtyard of an impassable terrain building. But they had ruled the courtyard itself as passable terrain so the drop pod rules didn't shift it off the otherwise encircling impassable terrain.

Thor665 wrote:Maybe it came down into a narrow courtyard of an impassable terrain building. But they had ruled the courtyard itself as passable terrain so the drop pod rules didn't shift it off the otherwise encircling impassable terrain.

Why in the name of Russ would someone declare the middle of an impassible building as passable?

For the same reason I build drop pod shaped holes in the middle of my Ork mobs - for strategic advantage of course.

edit: never mind.

Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

This is where the rules become grey. If the hatches for the pod count as part of the hull, then the pod couldn't land there at all! If the hull only counts as the shape of the pod with the doors closed, then your opponent barely would've been outside the 1" minimum distance.

I wonder then, if they're required to "immediately disembark" but they can't, would they count as destroyed? (as a player that plays Drop-Pod SM, I would really hope that this wouldn't be the case!)

Che-Vito wrote:

MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

This is where the rules become grey. If the hatches for the pod count as part of the hull, then the pod couldn't land there at all! If the hull only counts as the shape of the pod with the doors closed, then your opponent barely would've been outside the 1" minimum distance.

I wonder then, if they're required to "immediately disembark" but they can't, would they count as destroyed? (as a player that plays Drop-Pod SM, I would really hope that this wouldn't be the case!)

It's answered above, they imediately disembark as normal. If they can't because it's blocked they just stay in it until they can get out.

n0t_u wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

This is where the rules become grey. If the hatches for the pod count as part of the hull, then the pod couldn't land there at all! If the hull only counts as the shape of the pod with the doors closed, then your opponent barely would've been outside the 1" minimum distance.

I wonder then, if they're required to "immediately disembark" but they can't, would they count as destroyed? (as a player that plays Drop-Pod SM, I would really hope that this wouldn't be the case!)

It's answered above, they imediately disembark as normal. If they can't because it's blocked they just stay in it until they can get out.

It's NOT answered above, which is the problem. Their special rules require them to immediately disembark. If they do otherwise, then they are violating their rules.

So the question is, if a unit is unable to deploy/move/fall back, would these units count as destroyed?

Tri wrote:funnily enough the rules for transport cover this ...

"Once the Drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." page 69 codex SM

so what happens normally when you can't disembark?

"If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark" page 67 BGB

So Raw they sit in the drop pod till they can get out ... funnily enough they can shoot since its open-topped. So getting out isn't impossible.

I thought this answered it. It says they imediately "disembark, as normal". Which means they follow all the normal restrictions for disembarking. Unless I'm missing something from the disembarking rules of course.

n0t_u wrote:

Tri wrote:funnily enough the rules for transport cover this ...

"Once the Drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." page 69 codex SM

so what happens normally when you can't disembark?

"If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark" page 67 BGB

So Raw they sit in the drop pod till they can get out ... funnily enough they can shoot since its open-topped. So getting out isn't impossible.

I thought this answered it. It says they imediately "disembark, as normal". Which means they follow all the normal restrictions for disembarking. Unless I'm missing something from the disembarking rules of course.

"Must immediately disembark as normal". The requirement is that they disembark immediately, but there are other rules that disallow it.

By allowing them to stay in the transport, you violate the rule requiring them to immediately disembark. By having them disembark, they violate the rules for disembarking. Interesting catch .22

Must immediately disembark = get out now
,as normal = using the rules in BGB for disembarking

and the rules for disembarking are ...
>place with in 2" of an access point or 2" of the hull of an open-topped vehicle
>you cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model
>if the access points are blocked you may emergency disembark as if the vehicle was open-topped
>if you still can't disembark you cannot disembark

So not disembarking is part of disembarking rules so no rules have been broken.

Tri wrote:Must immediately disembark = get out now
,as normal = using the rules in BGB for disembarking

and the rules for disembarking are ...
>place with in 2" of an access point or 2" of the hull of an open-topped vehicle
>you cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model
>if the access points are blocked you may emergency disembark as if the vehicle was open-topped
>if you still can't disembark you cannot disembark

So not disembarking is part of disembarking rules so no rules have been broken.

Hmmm RAW this seems to be true. Quite a strange circumstance!

but this is being taken out of context. if you surround a transport and it is destroyed (not explodes) the "you cannot disembark" means those models are removed from play.

in no other instance are models allowed to remain in a wreck or other object "until there is room for them to disembark" they are simply marked as killed on their way out the door.

Agreed, but the drop pod in question was not destroyed.

Thor665 wrote:Agreed, but the drop pod in question was not destroyed.

NaZ wrote:but this is being taken out of context.

kirsanth wrote:

Thor665 wrote:Agreed, but the drop pod in question was not destroyed.

NaZ wrote:but this is being taken out of context.

taking things out of contexts is wrong but I'm still laughing

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MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

Had to be a one in a million shot, to scatter into a pod sized and shaped gap where there was no point that the model could disembark from.

Interesting conundrum.
Pod rules say you must disembark.
But you can't disembark so disembark rules say you can't, so you have to remain in the pod.
But you can't remain in the pod because you must disembark.
Only other rule that mentions must disembark is destroyed-wrecked and in that situation if the unit cannot disembark it is destroyed.

How did you play it?
EDIT:Saw from 1st post that you played it that it died. This looks to be the most correct.

time wizard wrote:

MadMonkeyMcKnight wrote:Well what happened was, my SM friend is always deep striking dreadnoughts w/ multi-meltas to kill tanks, so i positioned them this time back to back so couldn't hit back armor and had my guardsman in some groups around them and left some room for the tank to be able to rotate and maybe guards move back and fill the gap. He scattered into the gap...

Had to be a one in a million shot, to scatter into a pod sized and shaped gap where there was no point that the model could disembark from.

Interesting conundrum.
Pod rules say you must disembark.
But you can't disembark so disembark rules say you can't, so you have to remain in the pod.
But you can't remain in the pod because you must disembark.
Only other rule that mentions must disembark is destroyed-wrecked and in that situation if the unit cannot disembark it is destroyed.

How did you play it?
EDIT:Saw from 1st post that you played it that it died. This looks to be the most correct.

In the case of wrecked there is no longer a transport to carry you and it tells you they die in this case. If they always die when they can't disembark then the take in wrecked would not be need.

but I would argue that once the drop pod lands it can no longer be used as a trasport. w/o citing the specific pages (don't have the codexes infront of me) does it not state that you cannot re-embark into a drop pod?

not that I've ever seen this scenario come up, but I would still follow the thought that all of the models inside are destroyed as they try to disembark as forced from the drop pod.

You cannot re-embark on to a drop pod. That is not the same as it no longer counts as a transport. If you follow all the rules for disembarking they will sit inside the drop pod till there is space for them to be deployed or it blows up ...

Im with the crowd of, they stay inside the pod until it blows up. A SM can easily shrug off that type of attack. So just sit in there and shoot the piss out of thigns until that boom. It is open topped, so you CAN shoot all your weapons lol

KingCracker wrote:Im with the crowd of, they stay inside the pod until it blows up. A SM can easily shrug off that type of attack. So just sit in there and shoot the piss out of thigns until that boom. It is open topped, so you CAN shoot all your weapons lol

That might work if the drop pod rule said that you may disembark. But the rule says that you must disembark, so it is not an option to remain in the pod.
That's why I remarked that it was an interesting situation.
I would still say that if you could not do what the rules say you must do, that you should suffer consequences.
But nowhere is this particular situation specifically addressed.
Bottom line, if you can't disembark when the rules say you must, I believe you are destroyed.