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time wizard wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Im with the crowd of, they stay inside the pod until it blows up. A SM can easily shrug off that type of attack. So just sit in there and shoot the piss out of thigns until that boom. It is open topped, so you CAN shoot all your weapons lol

That might work if the drop pod rule said that you may disembark. But the rule says that you must disembark, so it is not an option to remain in the pod.
That's why I remarked that it was an interesting situation.
I would still say that if you could not do what the rules say you must do, that you should suffer consequences.
But nowhere is this particular situation specifically addressed.
Bottom line, if you can't disembark when the rules say you must, I believe you are destroyed.

Then please quote the rule where you "must disembark, as normal" and if you can't you'll be destroyed? You can't as the rule doesn't exist. You follow the rules for disembarking as normal and don't disembark.

Was this a standard drop pod? Was the gap large enough for the unopened hull only, or were the doors able to drop?

I'd like to see a diagram or picture.

So far, I'm with the "disembark when possible" crowd.

Can a drop pod really drop into a place that would cause it to be destroyed due to disembarkation rules? I would think that it would not do this due to the Inertial Guidance System rule.

I think the pod lands somewhere as normal. However, due to close buildling/vehicles/stuff, you can't get the doors open or have enough space for disembarking anyone. At this point, you have a transport vehicle that is immobilized, but still armed and carries troops. Since you cannot disembark (like a Chimera parked with its rear to a wall), the troops stay inside until they can. And until that happens, the pod gun and the passengers can fire out through...through....THEY CAN FIRE OUT!

Thor665 wrote:Agreed, I'm more bewildered by the setup that caused this result then the question itself.

Tri has the rules I would have quoted above. They wait until they're able to disembark.

yeah which means they stay there till they can disembark=for the rest of the game...

I personally would like to see a game where you CANT open up and disembark in a drop pad. Thats gotta be some weird crazy luck

Tri wrote:

time wizard wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Im with the crowd of, they stay inside the pod until it blows up. A SM can easily shrug off that type of attack. So just sit in there and shoot the piss out of thigns until that boom. It is open topped, so you CAN shoot all your weapons lol

That might work if the drop pod rule said that you may disembark. But the rule says that you must disembark, so it is not an option to remain in the pod.
That's why I remarked that it was an interesting situation.
I would still say that if you could not do what the rules say you must do, that you should suffer consequences.
But nowhere is this particular situation specifically addressed.
Bottom line, if you can't disembark when the rules say you must, I believe you are destroyed.

Then please quote the rule where you "must disembark, as normal" and if you can't you'll be destroyed? You can't as the rule doesn't exist. You follow the rules for disembarking as normal and don't disembark.

You are correct that a rule such as that does not exist. I didn't say there was such a rule.
The rule doesn't say, "...must disembark, as normal." In fact it says "...all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." CSM pg69 {EM}
As I stated in an earlier post, the only other rule I could find that uses these words are the Destroyed-wrecked rules on page 67 BRB which say, in part, "The passengers must immediately disembark..." and "Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed."
Of course this rule does not apply because the pod was deployed, not destroyed. I just remarked that part of the wording in the rule was similar.
I did not quote a rule that says the unit is destroyed if it cannot disembark from the pod, because there is no such rule. This situation is not covered in the rules.
The rules you cite are from pages 66 & 67 BRB. The embarking and disembarking rules say that "Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase...". Being told that you must immediately disembark doesn't sound like 'voluntary' to me.
Also, there is no rule, either in CSM or BRB that addresses what happens to units in a pod who are not able to disembark on the turn the pod is deployed.
GW rules aren't perfect, but TBH, if they wrote a rulebook to cover every concievable situation, it would be the size of an encyclopic dictionary and would most probably be unreadable.
I asked how the OP played it, he said the unit was destroyed, and I said that looked to be the most correct.
In the absence of any errata I would probably play it the same way (I do play marines, and this has never come up in a game).
But there is no specific rule to cover this situation (must disembark, but cannot) so anyone's idea on how it should be played is opinion and/or houserule.

time wizard wrote:
You are correct that a rule such as that does not exist. I didn't say there was such a rule.
The rule doesn't say, "...must disembark, as normal." In fact it says "...all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." codex SM pg69 {EM}

as normal

As I stated in an earlier post, the only other rule I could find that uses these words are the Destroyed-wrecked rules on page 67 BRB which say, in part, "The passengers must immediately disembark..." and "Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed."
Of course this rule does not apply because the pod was deployed, not destroyed. I just remarked that part of the wording in the rule was similar.

Similar but not the same. In one they have a transport, in other they've got a pile of burning scrap.

I did not quote a rule that says the unit is destroyed if it cannot disembark from the pod, because there is no such rule. This situation is not covered in the rules.
The rules you cite are from pages 66 & 67 BRB. The embarking and disembarking rules say that "Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase...". Being told that you must immediately disembark doesn't sound like 'voluntary' to me.
Also, there is no rule, either in CSM or BRB that addresses what happens to units in a pod who are not able to disembark on the turn the pod is deployed.

Yes it is not voluntary however it does follow the voluntary rules since they disembark, as normal.

GW rules aren't perfect, but TBH, if they wrote a rulebook to cover every concievable situation, it would be the size of an encyclopic dictionary and would most probably be unreadable.
I asked how the OP played it, he said the unit was destroyed, and I said that looked to be the most correct.
In the absence of any errata I would probably play it the same way (I do play marines, and this has never come up in a game).
But there is no specific rule to cover this situation (must disembark, but cannot) so anyone's idea on how it should be played is opinion and/or houserule.

indeed its any ones guess what happens if only GW had said what happens to a unit that cannot disembark . . . oh wait they did they stay put

Tri wrote: indeed its any ones guess what happens if only GW had said what happens to a unit that cannot disembark . . .

Agreed!

KingCracker wrote:I personally would like to see a game where you CANT open up and disembark in a drop pad. Thats gotta be some weird crazy luck

I can pretty easily imagine this happening, especially with a dread inside the pod.
A pod can not come within 1" of an enemy unit, and the contents can not disembark within 1". A dread has nearly a 3" base. So say I mean to drop my pod right in front of two 30 man ork mobs ~3" from each other, but with a 7" gap in the middle of the space due to say some difficult terrain they were avoiding walking through, but it scatters right between them. The pod (at around 3" wide) finds the closest place to plunk down, which happens to be that 7" difficult terrain. This leaves a tidy space ~ 2" from either mob, but does not provide enough space to put a 3" base 1" away from the orks. So Mr Dread is trapped. Depending on what he was armed with, I might be tempted to park some of the boyz around him to keep him there!

Yea I could see that happening I guess. That would be a hugely bad idea. But instead, Id just blow the bloody thing up. Even a dred with just CCW have bolters on them. And Orks aint known fer takin hits to da chest

I have to agree with time wizard. went and looked at the drop pod rules.. it is very specific about MUST disembark.

this isn't really any different from deep striking in point blank to another unit. if you are going to take those kind of risks there is the potential to lose units

NaZ, yes you must disembark, but you still follow the rules for disembarking, which say if you can't, you remain in the transport.

By RAW, the SMs disappear into a whirlwind of circular logic. The question is what to do on the tabletop.

There are two choices.

1. They die like any other Deep Striking unit which can't find a safe landing spot.

2. They are stuck inside the pod until they get the hatches open.

I prefer 2, since the point of paying for a Drop Pod is to avoid the normal dangers of deep strike.

Kilkrazy wrote:By RAW, the SMs disappear into a whirlwind of circular logic. The question is what to do on the tabletop.

There are two choices.

1. They die like any other Deep Striking unit which can't find a safe landing spot.

2. They are stuck inside the pod until they get the hatches open.

I prefer 2, since the point of paying for a Drop Pod is to avoid the normal dangers of deep strike.

I would have to disagree. By RaW, it's #2. The Space marines "Must disembark as normal". The "as normal" is the key here. If it had just said "Must disembark", then they would be destroyed.

As normal means they follow the normal rules, which say if you cannot disembark, you don't.

Gwar! wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:By RAW, the SMs disappear into a whirlwind of circular logic. The question is what to do on the tabletop.

There are two choices.

1. They die like any other Deep Striking unit which can't find a safe landing spot.

2. They are stuck inside the pod until they get the hatches open.

I prefer 2, since the point of paying for a Drop Pod is to avoid the normal dangers of deep strike.

I would have to disagree. By RaW, it's #2. The Space marines "Must disembark as normal". The "as normal" is the key here. If it had just said "Must disembark", then they would be destroyed.

As normal means they follow the normal rules, which say if you cannot disembark, you don't.

No gwar if they didn't include ", as normal" then there'd be a question as to what happens to them. This is because there is no rule for what happens if a unit must be deployed. To be honest it would be more likely to cause a deep strike mishap since they can't all be deployed.

Well it's a moot point because it DOES say as normal, so I can be as wrong about non-real rules as I want

time wizard wrote:
That might work if the drop pod rule said that you may disembark. But the rule says that you must disembark, so it is not an option to remain in the pod.
That's why I remarked that it was an interesting situation.
I would still say that if you could not do what the rules say you must do, that you should suffer consequences.
But nowhere is this particular situation specifically addressed.
Bottom line, if you can't disembark when the rules say you must, I believe you are destroyed.

If there is no consequence then that "must" has no authority, unless/until the players house-rule it.

Since the drop pod rules do say "as normal" then it looks like the deep strike rules would apply depending on how one chooses to untwist the mess of rules and FAQ precedents involving deep striking transports.

For game as played I'd advocate using the deep strike mishap table for the unit because the unit fits into the "cannot be deployed" clause but that's because I prefer untwisting the mess to indicate that units disembarking out of a deep striking transport count as deep striking. But that has the strange side effect of having to explain how the unit fell out of the drop pod...

Deuce11 wrote:If there is no consequence then that "must" has no authority, unless/until the players house-rule it.

What? It says Must disembark as normal. That means you cannot choose to remain inside. However, if you HAVE to remain inside, because the Disembarking rules say so, you remain inside.

A good sport will let them wait while a douche will say they are destroyed.

i hate to go with the crowd but the rules dont state anything about death when the vehicle is not destroyed as such i would assume that infact the troops remain in the drop pod until the first avaliable chance to disembark. Is there a way of getting GW to clear this up?

Afrikan Blonde wrote:A good sport will let them wait while a douche will say they are destroyed.

That's putting it in rather emotive terms which are unhelpful to the debate.

There is merit in both sides of the argument.

If troops forced to disembark from a destroyed transport are unable to do so normally, they are removed.

The drop pod situation is the same, except that the transport vehicle is not actually destroyed. The contents are only forced to disembark because the rules say so.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Afrikan Blonde wrote:A good sport will let them wait while a douche will say they are destroyed.

That's putting it in rather emotive terms which are unhelpful to the debate.

There is merit in both sides of the argument.

If troops forced to disembark from a destroyed transport are unable to do so normally, they are removed.

The drop pod situation is the same, except that the transport vehicle is not actually destroyed. The contents are only forced to disembark because the rules say so.

No they don't they say "they must disembark, as normal" and normally what happens when you can't disembark is you don't disembark. They only time they are destroyed is when there is no longer anything to transport them.

No, it says the troops must immediately disembark when the pod lands. (Don't have my SM codex to hand but this rule was quoted in the second post in the thread.)

Kilkrazy wrote:No, it says the troops must immediately disembark when the pod lands. (Don't have my SM codex to hand but this rule was quoted in the second post in the thread.)

As normal ... as normal tells you to use the disembark rules; the disembark rules tell you to stay put.

Then why is everyone arguing about it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Case solved: If a drop pod lands in such a position that occupants cannot immediately disembark, they have to wait inside until an opportunity presents itself.

And drink tall cool ones while waiting.

Kilkrazy wrote:Then why is everyone arguing about it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Case solved: If a drop pod lands in such a position that occupants cannot immediately disembark, they have to wait inside until an opportunity presents itself.

I have noooo idea. I posted these rules at the very start, then every ones getting caught up on the 'must' ... and they must disembark ... when they can legally disembark