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Yes this is a home-made custom unit. It's a land-raider, first and foremost. It contains:

5 lascannons; 3 of them twin-linked
1 demolisher cannon
1 heavy bolter (hope to up it to assault cannon when I get the parts)

Special Rules:
Greater power of the Machine spirit: Fluff-wise, the Finale has no crew because it is filled with so many weapons. Therefore, it ignores crew shaken and stunned results.

Oh yeah, it costs 420 points.

Before you dig in into how broken/stupid/f-ed up wrong it is, please know it has been thoroughly play-tested. I have tested it out well enough and in my area (minus the a-holes) it's always welcome as a well-balanced and fair unit. Remember it's originally geared for anti-titan duty . . . (digs trenches) now that I'm dug in, fire/complain away!

seems fair, but silly. Has no transport capacity, right? you probably mounted the demolisher cannon where the assault ramp should go.

personally, I'd think a predator assassin squadron with all lascannon predators would be much better at gunning down titans, and surviving their return fire... but thats just me.

this is apoc only, I presume?

Horst wrote:seems fair, but silly. Has no transport capacity, right? you probably mounted the demolisher cannon where the assault ramp should go.

personally, I'd think a predator assassin squadron with all lascannon predators would be much better at gunning down titans, and surviving their return fire... but thats just me.

this is apoc only, I presume?

First question, yes. If I can't field a crew there's no way I can transport units! Second thing is, as I have barely 3000 points, I've never tested it in apocalypse! All of the play-tresting has been in standard 40K games . . . Treat it like any other forgeworld model. (Ie, needs opponents permission)

I have tested it out well enough and in my area (minus the a-holes) it's always welcome as a well-balanced and fair unit.

So, anyone who disagrees with you is an A-hole, is that what you are saying?
BTW, this has been done.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Raider_Terminus_Ultra

Remove the random garbage like "Greater power of the Machine spirit" and a damn demolisher cannon, and it's almost exactly the same.

I'm also not sure if there's any kind of synergy between 48" lascannons and a 24" demolisher cannon. The Terminus Ultra is clearly for AT work, your Finale seems to be a mix of AT/siege weaponry.

Personal opinion: That many points in a normal AV14 vehicle? No structure points, void shields...Do you really want to put 420 points in a unit that can be fried by...I don't know, air-cav meltavets, lascannon luckshot, bright lance fire, vanquisher cannons and some other stuff on round ONE?

Like the Terminus Ultra, it might be ok for Apoc, but for normal games...I wouldn't take something like that.

420 points seems reasonably fair.

Do you really want that much of your firepower concentrated into a single unit?

Also, why the demolisher cannon? It doesn't seem to fit. On the other hand a Vanquisher cannon would be much more apropriate.

If it has been play tested and opponents find it fair I guess theres not alot to say. However just were does it keep the weapons? The Demolisher cannon takes up the entire front (its shells the majority of the interior also), The las cannons could go 4 on the doors\side hatches but that still leaves 1 TL las and the HB with no realistic place to go.
Also you probably want to include something like the terminus ultras rule were you roll 3-4 1's before rerolls on the las cannons you suffer a single penetrating hit.

So basically it's a mix between a Terminus Ultra and an Aeris?
Well it's not my cup of tea. As it have been noticed already been said 420p is a bit to much for an "ordinary" vehicle.
One lucky hit and that's it.


//Edge

420 points for something that will die to a single penetrating hit? Why would you pay a Super-Heavy price tag without the benefits of a Super-Heavy's durability?

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

my 2 dollars worth.

if it has no transport cap and no crew give it at least 2 structure points (in comparason baneblades cost 500 pts, have 3 SPs and a lot more guns) and give it a void shield and scratch the Dcannon(please), better would be something that is at least 36" range and a D weapon, (make it up) this would bring it to 500 in my opinion

What do you mean by Greater power of the MS

Canonness Rory wrote:

I have tested it out well enough and in my area (minus the a-holes) it's always welcome as a well-balanced and fair unit.

So, anyone who disagrees with you is an A-hole, is that what you are saying?
BTW, this has been done.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Raider_Terminus_Ultra

Remove the random garbage like "Greater power of the Machine spirit" and a damn demolisher cannon, and it's almost exactly the same.

Nope, just that the A-holes in my area don't like it. I assembled it first and thought about it later . . .


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H.B.M.C. wrote:420 points for something that will die to a single penetrating hit? Why would you pay a Super-Heavy price tag without the benefits of a Super-Heavy's durability?

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

A Machine Spirit allows me to fire at two seperate targets, and even fire the Demo-cannon on the move. It can fire every turn (again thanks to the Machine Spirit), and though it can't take as much as a super heavy Tank it has (roughly) twice the Anti-tank firepower of a Baneblade, and is so much more accurate. It's an anti-tank/ seige tank. It's vulnerable to anti-tank fire. It's expensive but worth it if you're smart.

I'll be play-testing it with void-sheilds and/or structer points. Originally, it had a single tech-marine inside to minister to it's large machine spirit and fix it, but so far it's done pretty far without it (Repair things on a 5 or 6 Blessing of the Omnissiah rule). Wish me luck (or curses if you hate me or it).

Writerski7 wrote:A Machine Spirit allows me to fire at two seperate targets, and even fire the Demo-cannon on the move.

Which a super-heavy can do already without any special rules.

Writerski7 wrote:It can fire every turn (again thanks to the Machine Spirit), and though it can't take as much as a super heavy Tank it has (roughly) twice the Anti-tank firepower of a Baneblade, and is so much more accurate. It's an anti-tank/ seige tank. It's vulnerable to anti-tank fire. It's expensive but worth it if you're smart.

Translation: USE TACTICS!!!!1

There's a thing called 'Fragility Ratios' that comes into all rules design. Doesn't matter how good something is offensively, and how you point that offensive capability if its defensive capability isn't worth a damn. A standard non-Super-Heavy tank worth over 400 points? Target number one for all Anti-tank units. It won't survive a turn in Apoc.

I agree, one Stormsword or Stompa is going to target that vehicle first, over penetrate and leave a crater. That 420 pts could have been spent on a Titanhammer formation that would most likely do more damage to tanks (Vortex grenade anyone) that does say that it is a threat . if you play appocolypse hold it in reserve and bring it on and then you will get at least one round of shooting. Do not put it in the open always have cover, learned that with my Terminus when a Lifta-droppa on a Mek Stompa kept playing basketball with it every turn.

Scott-S6 wrote:420 points seems reasonably fair.

Do you really want that much of your firepower concentrated into a single unit?

Also, why the demolisher cannon? It doesn't seem to fit. On the other hand a Vanquisher cannon would be much more apropriate.

Got the rules fo the Vanquisher Cannon?

Might make it a super heavy that can move 12" every turn. Give it 3 structure points and no void sheilds. Up the points to 450 if I do this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:my 2 dollars worth.

if it has no transport cap and no crew give it at least 2 structure points (in comparason baneblades cost 500 pts, have 3 SPs and a lot more guns) and give it a void shield and scratch the Dcannon(please), better would be something that is at least 36" range and a D weapon, (make it up) this would bring it to 500 in my opinion

What do you mean by Greater power of the MS

It has no crew, so it is given a stronger MAchine Spirit than a normal Land Raider, supposedly using Dark Age tech to do so. Ignores crew stunned and shaken but otherwise just a normal machine spirit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe make the gun a Gravitron Gun (Dark Age gun)?

Strength 8
Range 36"
AP 4
Type Heavy 1, melta, 3" blast

to determine blast radius roll 1D6 after scattar and add it onto the 3" blast marker. Is Destroyer, AP 1 under 3" blast marker and rolls 2D6 for armor penetration.

That's more like it

yeah i would allow that. 1 volley from the broadsides and I'm winning already. To many points for not having energy shields or means to not insta pop, and i would give it a crew and give it trasnport I mean its basically heavy support only and thats it. Which all Space Marines players will attest that its not just the weapons but carring round termis and having 14 armor protecting them. Me i would have taking a bigger gun or made up a new gun like a barrage lassgun. I think its sounds cool and I am sure you ahve thought it out a lot. I just see you eventually wanting to us other things in battle beside it that can be more effective and cost effective.

Here's a Lascannon for you

Reaper Pattern Lazcannon

Range 60"; Str,9; AP2; Special, Heavy 3, twin-linked

i put this on a Gun emplacement and it was a "Wound-erful" thing for popping Termies (and Stompas too)

Writerski7 wrote:
Got the rules fo the Vanquisher Cannon?

I don't have my guard codex in front of me but IIRC it's 72" Str 8 AP2 2D6 for penetration at all ranges.

Not quite as good as a multimelta (not AP1) but vastly better range.