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Is Sammael worth taking in RW or combined RW/DW force.

If so, would you give him a Jetbike or a Land Speeder?

I like his AV14 Land Speeder, seems pimp.

I see a fair amount of the double wing armies taking both Sammael and Belial, perhaps so they can get medics in 2 squads (1 unit of bikes and 1 unit of termies)?

The Jetbike is fun and an awesome model but he isn't an independent character and gets picked out pretty quickly.

The flying land raider is all kinds of awesome.

funny story about an opponent I took with sammael...

I deployed 2 predators on one side of the board, and kept everything else in reserve. by his second turn, both predators were pretty much in shambles... one had just an autocannon left, the other was destroyed. he had 3 bikers with meltas and a power fist ready to destroy it. he moved sammael over towards the other board edge, to make ready for my reserves comming in. well, his bikers did jack squad to my predator, with their meltas and powerfist. so as my reserves come in, my predator with autocannon fires ONCE into his speeder... of which it now has an excellent rear armor shot. pen6'd.

the moral is, be careful who you show that av10 side to, because your expensive speeder will get wrecked.

Caffran9 wrote:
I see a fair amount of the double wing armies taking both Sammael and Belial, perhaps so they can get medics in 2 squads (1 unit of bikes and 1 unit of termies)?

Yeah, a Deathraven army can have two Medics.

Although Deathraven sounds good, I frequently hear it called Doublewing.

If you go mech...(which prob. isn't the case) the speeder. But if you go with as many bodies as you can, then the jetbike.

At the end of the day the choice is:
Plasma Cannon vs. TL Assault Cannon/Hvy Bolter.

I rather like plasma cannons.

My 7 Cents.

The jetbike version is also seriously powerful in CC -- and of course since it's on a bike, the plasma cannon is effectively an assault weapon rather than a heavy weapon.

Incidentally, an army with Belial and Sammael in can get 3 Apothecaries -- a Terminator one for Belial, a Ravenwing Biker one for Sammael, and a PA Command Squad one for Belial.

Landspeeder all the way. Except in a few matchups/lists, you will get better mileage out of Sammael in speeder than jetbike. All my opponents fear Sammael and his ability to basically get 7 hits per turn with his weapons. He will mow down any GEQ's and can even take down small MEQ squads with weight of fire. Combine his shots with a Dakka Pred or two and the amount of firepower you put out is just sick.

I used him on the bike and speeder quite a bit.. You can really go either way, and it depends a bit on the rest of the army.

He is so-so in close combat. He is able to bog units down, but won't kill a whole lot. For shooting it really depends if you need a high volume of accurate shots, or a move and fire "sniper" plasma cannon.

The bike is more versatile I think. The speeder dies easily in close combat, to lances and melta weapons. Other armies like Orks are hard pressed to deal with it short of assaulting it.

What does your army build look like?

What does your army build look like?

Well, I played a solid DW army in the RTT last month:

Belial
4x 5 DW Termies
2x 10 Tactical Marines
6 RW Bikers

If I integrate Sammael, the list would look like this

Belial
Sammae.
4x 5 DW Termies
2x 6 RW Bikers

In that case I might actually use the Jetbike version. It gives you a unit that can stall an enemy cc unit or take out small enemy units. Plus, it would be the only vehicle in your army so would be target number one for any deepstriking meltas or other AT.

I play full mech DA so Sammael on Speeder is great in that army. It gives me another vehicle (and AV14 at that!) and adds more firepower.