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We are naturally abit biased towards our own work , hence its important to get feed back atleast
( positive or negative are both very important , because they are constructive criticisms.

Not to mention the invaluable insights , tips , suggestions that comes to help us improve , and see what we cant see ourselves.

Am i getting no feed back at all because half of dakka put me on ignore or something?
Its really hard to improve as we dont exactly have teachers for painting and modeling .

*edit feel free to leave your honest opinion in the poll , as its anonymous .

Are you thinking of the gallery or some posts in the modelling forum?

Personally lazyness is what brings me to dakka and being less lazy makes me post less (as I'll either be working or painting some of my own models

I've found this site to generally just be plain borderline useless unless I need to read a flamewar for laffs, and for that, fark is better.

and yes, someone will be -driven- to reply with "if you don't like it then get out!". To which I will pre-emptively reply with "lolno".

I think it might be a mixture of laziness and something else. Its like... I want to post, but firstly what do I write to sound cohesive? And secondly I'm either lazy or tired if I'm on Dakka. I like to look at a thread of nicely painted models, but unless someone asks something pretty specific I won't post a reply. But I do agree more feedback would be helpful.

I try to make a few posts every day, and posts like "good stuff, luna" don't usually make it into the bunch.

I feel your pain Luna. I'd often rather people nitpick the living hell out of my work than say nothing. Dakka feels like it has lots and lots of occasional posters in the rules/gaming sections (on top of the big names), but far fewer, more active members in the modeling aspects.

I think another side of it is that lots of painting threads go like so:

OP: Here's a bunch of very solid pictures, and a blurb about the models.
5-10 posts: "non-specific complement, OP! Generous comparison to my own self-deprecated work!"
(for the record, I've seen a couple of your own threads like the above; there's often more than 5-10 posts in yours though )

I try to avoid those kinds of generalist compliments, as I like to think most painters feel the way I do; that while appreciated, general back-patting doesn't get me very far. Nice to hear, but I can get that from my grandmother; "nice toys, dear! Very pretty."

I personally have a hard time posting in P&M threads if I don't feel I can offer one of three things: criticisms, questions, or specific compliments.

Those 3 categories are also in the order I feel will most help someone's work; tell them what you think could look better (and if you have an idea for how, share). Or you can simply ask about a particular style/process, which often helps the artist think about how they did it as well. Lastly, if you see something that you think is specifically working well, let them know so they can either run with it, or at least save it away in their bag of tricks.

Hopefully my text-wall provides a little insight, Luna

For me it's a mixture of lazyness and normally I look at dakka while at work, and as I consider typing to be work and I try as hard as I can not to do anything productive at work, I don't want to post longer than a sentence post on anything. (Yes, I realise this is longer than a sentence but justifying it makes me feel better =) )

Sometimes I post in P n m , but dakka being a bunch of cynics hates back patting. Everything is serious business. I do my best to back pat specificially because I am aware that if you have 100 views and no replies then at least one back pat means that someone read your thread and looked at the picks. Bring on the back patting I say.

I actively post criticism and praise in the modelling and blogs on a fairly regular basis.

Since you and I have not historically got along, I do not comment on your work, since I think you would become personally insulted if I offered constructive criticism and/or dubious if I offered praise.

I liked your killer kans but felt your ork/AT-43 hybrid figures and 3 armed orks looked ill fitting and simplistically kitbashed without much real effort to understand how to mesh aesthetics effectively.

You seem to be in need of attention and praise in the modeling threads I've read from you Luna, ultimately either you are happy with your model or you are not, make your decision and stand by it.

it can also depend on the time difference..

i either don't post if i:

A) cant say anything constructive
B) dont have any feed back
C) sometimes my still level (painting) is below the person who has actually painted it...

other then that, i try to help with 1-2 sentences, like what looks good and reccomendations

I tend not to coment too much on the P&M bits of the board as i prefer not to make coments about peoples hard work which may seem negative.

When I was about 8 I had spent all weekend converting and painting a squad of Choas marines, they were the first completed squad I had ever done and I was proud of that, I ran to the bus stop and heading into my local GW store to show them off. I got laughed at and told how truly aweful they were by staff and regulars alike.

This put me off painting for a very long time. I am now a very slow painter who is still unlikely to ever post my work. What hurt the most was that they were 100% right, the miniatures were crap.

Now i know this was hardly constructive critasism, but however you dress it up when someone suggests trying something out or doing something another way a part of you inside says "they think your painting/modeling is rubbish".

I guess i don't want to make what i percieve to be a helpful suggestion and leave someone feeling down in the dumps because those miniatures i just comented on had taken them several weeks effort to produce.

On the flip side, I rarely post to say how good i think something is unless i am genuinely impressed. I firmly believe that celebrating mediocrity just sets someone up for a bigger dissapointment later on in life

squilverine wrote:I tend not to coment too much on the P&M bits of the board as i prefer not to make coments about peoples hard work which may seem negative.

When I was about 8 I had spent all weekend converting and painting a squad of Choas marines, they were the first completed squad I had ever done and I was proud of that, I ran to the bus stop and heading into my local GW store to show them off. I got laughed at and told how truly aweful they were by staff and regulars alike.

This put me off painting for a very long time. I am now a very slow painter who is still unlikely to ever post my work. What hurt the most was that they were 100% right, the miniatures were crap.

Now i know this was hardly constructive critasism, but however you dress it up when someone suggests trying something out or doing something another way a part of you inside says "they think your painting/modeling is rubbish".

I guess i don't want to make what i percieve to be a helpful suggestion and leave someone feeling down in the dumps because those miniatures i just comented on had taken them several weeks effort to produce.

On the flip side, I rarely post to say how good i think something is unless i am genuinely impressed. I firmly believe that celebrating mediocrity just sets someone up for a bigger dissapointment later on in life

The post speaks of wisdom , im very grateful to be able to read this.

I think hobbyist seek criticism more than back patting , most of us do not have teachers that teach us how to paint , or tell us what we are doing wrong .
Reading other's suggestions are pretty much ( for me atleast ) the only way i can use to change / improve on .

squilverine wrote:I tend not to coment too much on the P&M bits of the board as i prefer not to make coments about peoples hard work which may seem negative.

When I was about 8 I had spent all weekend converting and painting a squad of Choas marines, they were the first completed squad I had ever done and I was proud of that, I ran to the bus stop and heading into my local GW store to show them off. I got laughed at and told how truly aweful they were by staff and regulars alike.

This put me off painting for a very long time. I am now a very slow painter who is still unlikely to ever post my work. What hurt the most was that they were 100% right, the miniatures were crap.

Now i know this was hardly constructive critasism, but however you dress it up when someone suggests trying something out or doing something another way a part of you inside says "they think your painting/modeling is rubbish".

I guess i don't want to make what i percieve to be a helpful suggestion and leave someone feeling down in the dumps because those miniatures i just comented on had taken them several weeks effort to produce.

On the flip side, I rarely post to say how good i think something is unless i am genuinely impressed. I firmly believe that celebrating mediocrity just sets someone up for a bigger dissapointment later on in life

So then you make constructive criticism and ways things can be improved if you genuinely think something needs improving.

Mostly, I've become jaded when it comes to P&M blogs, because so many people either don't know how to photograph miniatures or their painting just sucks. (I got a week of banhammer once for an honest critique of somebody's work. Pffft!!!) However, I do applaud you for painting your army, that's more than 90% of 40K players can be bothered with.

My constructive critique can be taken as as very offensive, because if I see errors in technique or abhorent color theory being applied, I put it very bluntly. So I don't bother anymore, due to more perma-bans and hatemail than any "Ya know i see what you mean!"

Nah, I'm all for the back-patting.

Once I've finished a model and posted a photo of it, the last thing I want is someone pointing out how the arm is slightly out of line or something. I'm far too lazy to go back and change anything

I'm much more fond of "That model looks great, what model did the head come from?" or, failing that, "I hate your model and your face"....

I like posting more in WIP threads, where I can perhaps suggest small changes to a model at whatever stages they are being submitted at.

A good example would be this thread and this page where the creators are involving the posters in the creative process at pretty much every step, as well as getting them involved in the fluff etc too.

Threads like this, where you are welcomed with open arms to partake are far easier to partake in, in my view, than threads which just show off a couple of fully painted models (especially if the painter is better than you are). In these threads I may just post "that looks great", or I may make a small suggestion such as "that cape could perhaps do with more of a wash to bring out the folds better" (or something).

Often these suggestions do not get a reply because a) the poster has "finished" their model and so really just wanted compliments, or b) they don't want to take suggestions from people who are not themselves fantastic artists, or c) some mixture of the above.

I also hesitate to post replies in threads with terribly painted models, for fear of putting the poster off their painting (as mentioned in a post above by squilverine), though I do sometimes post with a few suggestions on using washes and perhaps using the camera correctly if the pictures are blurred.

Red9 wrote:My constructive critique can be taken as as very offensive, because if I see errors in technique or abhorent color theory being applied, I put it very bluntly. So I don't bother anymore, due to more perma-bans and hatemail than any "Ya know i see what you mean!"

You are welcome ( and invited ) to critique my threads ( im not into S&M! ) but i need this to improve.

@SilverMK2 , sort of like p&m blog threads?
Im abit different on how i treat my "finished model" i always go back to change things if people suggests ( sometimes it gets beyond what i can do
and it messes up , but its still a learning experience for me )

I have just had a peek at some of the miniatures you have posted up, I get the feeling the reason you aren't getting any C&C is because they are superb quality, there realy is nothing about your Tank Busta's that could have been done any better, fromm the metals down to the bases it's all good!

LunaHound wrote:@SilverMK2 , sort of like p&m blog threads?

Even then, some people just seem to want people to say "well done". I have so far only featured "completed" models in my own P&M blog, but I would realy like constructive feedback on what people think I could do to improve them, though such advice is sadly lacking from what I can remember, with people just saying "well done" (which I still appreciate, don't get me wrong).

Though having said that, I don't think my blog is particularly comment friendly in the way I have presented it, so that might be partly my own fault.

Then there are other users who seem to be able to invite people in and take on board what they are saying with ease in any kind of tread. I lack this skill

Im abit different on how i treat my "finished model" i always go back to change things if people suggests ( sometimes it gets beyond what i can do
and it messes up , but its still a learning experience for me )

That is good. I fully intend to go back to my older models and improve them based on what I have learnt and the comments of others. I just have so many models and so little inclination to paint anything that I need to devote any painting time I do spend to painting all my unpainted stuff, of which I have vast quantities

For small changes I will go and do them though.

Most users of the site are very casual. We have over 19,000 registered users, yet the number of well-known people (who make a lot of posts) is just a few dozen. There are people who have been members for years and only post a couple of times a month. These people are not lazy, they just have a different level of engagement with the site and can’t be expected to do a lot of commenting on galleries and P&M blogs.

Some of the keenest members are not as interested in Painting & Modelling as they are in competitions and rules.

Despite what some people say, the P&M forum is one of the livelier in the site. There are a lot of new topics every day. People are interested, but they are more often asking for help and advice on their own queries than commenting on other people’s. I suppose you could call that a kind of selfishness, though comments from people are still beginners are unlikely to be of much value to an experienced modeler.

Some people say they “tell it like it is” with harsh but true criticism. Two things about this: (A) unkind criticism can damage the confidence of younger, novice modellers, (B) it isn’t the only way of giving fair and realistic criticism. Moderators may take the view that savage comment is done for the pleasure of the savaging, not for the value of the comment. That is not what Dakka is about.

OTOH, back-patting is nice but it’s not useful in itself. I’ve seen dreadful photography sites where you get reams of ‘criticism’ saying “Wow!”, “Great!”, “Super pic”, and so on. If something is great, it’s worth going into why you think so. E.g. “Wow! I love the way you made the glowing colours on the jet exhaust. How did you achieve that effect?”

@Howlingmoon, you’ve been a member for six whole days and you’ve already got the site pegged. Quick work!

squilverine wrote:I tend not to coment too much on the P&M bits of the board as i prefer not to make coments about peoples hard work which may seem negative.

When I was about 8 I had spent all weekend converting and painting a squad of Choas marines, they were the first completed squad I had ever done and I was proud of that, I ran to the bus stop and heading into my local GW store to show them off. I got laughed at and told how truly aweful they were by staff and regulars alike.

This put me off painting for a very long time. I am now a very slow painter who is still unlikely to ever post my work. What hurt the most was that they were 100% right, the miniatures were crap.

Now i know this was hardly constructive critasism, but however you dress it up when someone suggests trying something out or doing something another way a part of you inside says "they think your painting/modeling is rubbish".

I guess i don't want to make what i percieve to be a helpful suggestion and leave someone feeling down in the dumps because those miniatures i just comented on had taken them several weeks effort to produce.

On the flip side, I rarely post to say how good i think something is unless i am genuinely impressed. I firmly believe that celebrating mediocrity just sets someone up for a bigger dissapointment later on in life

I couldn't have said it better myself. Seriously. I couldn't. I'm really tired :(

But just to add on to that, I think another deterrent for myself is I have very little work of my own to show and that holds me back from commenting on others. I'm not 100% sure why this occurs, but it might be because I feel like I'm all talk and no show if I keep commenting on peoples work without having much of my own to give back to the community. Dakka has a great wealth of extremely talented individuals, and even beginners who are actually willing to take constructive criticism (a key aspect in gaining skill in painting and such).

...I suppose I could post my WIP Khorne Daemon prince if anyone's interested...

I also have that bug where I have no idea which army I want to focus on. That doesn't really help my situation.

EDIT: Cup cakes

Generally I'm too busy looking at the pictures to see how I can improve my own work

I don't often post criticisms on painting because atm I'm a few years out of practice on it myself and pretty much relearning. With an army repaint to do and not the time really to do what I used to (8 to 20 hours a model, blending the highlighting up from the basecoat which now gets called layering) I'm generally just skiming posts for interesting stuff .

So for me, lazy and not spending the time deserved on other peoples stuff. And no, I wont post anything I paint for a bit either as my stuff looks awful just now.

I never really stop in that area....so it's laziness, but I think I'll go check it out.

Possessing no real modelling or painting ability of my own, comments and criticism of the work of others is not something i normally take part in. Doesn't mean i won't take a gander though.

I will glady post a comment if I have constructive criticism, a usefull idea or a relavent question.
What I dont do is drop praise bombs(just adding another "Thats Great!" remark) or criticise without the constructive part.
So I dont comment much....

I've been told that I'm overly harsh when it comes to giving critiques, hence, I tend to avoid doing it, so as not to discourage people or hurt their feelings.

I'm not going to tell someone that they did a good job when they didn't, but telling someone that their effort doesn't look good is frowned upon...

I came in here asking myself "who's this random noob asking for help?" then I realized Luna changed his avatar again. So then I thought "good god, really? that's twice in one week, dakka is really going down the hole." but then "maybe I'm so cynical and sarcastic that I can't offer positive criticism because I'm a sadist who enjoys upsetting people" "oh gak are they listening to me think? Quick think of something else. *Shot through the heart and you're too blame, you give love a bad name*"

I made a thread like this a long time ago. I wanted to know why i takes like 60 or 70 views for someone to finally say a fragmented 4 word sentence. I agree with you, it is annoying to try something new, or just show what your working on, and have NO ONE say anything about it. Good or bad, I think its important to know. Not to over criticize people, but a few try this or dont do that, is how we get better at what we do

avantgarde wrote:then I realized Luna changed his avatar again.

This Luna Hound person is a guy? I didn't realize.