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I played in the world wide war tournament a few weekends ago as did all my warhammer playing friends. I got to play all my friends tournie lists with my own either before or during the competition.

All but one that is and I just challenged him to a game on Saturday.

Quite frankly I'm myself.

His list was the following

Pedro Kantor

8 x assault termies, 5 with th/ss and 5 with lightning claws

8 x regular termies, 1 with a cyclone

10 tacs, flamer, lascannon and sarge with fist riding in a razorback with lascannons

10 tacs, flamer lascannon and sarge with pw riding in a razorback with lascannons

7 x grey knights, targeter, justicar

5 x grey knights, justicar, 2 x psycannon, targeter


and that's it.


My list was

warboss on bike, attack squig, pklaw, cybork body

big mek with kff

23 x shoota boyz, 2 big shootas plus nob with p-klaw, bosspole

23 x shoota boyz, 2 big shootas plus nob with p-klaw, bosspole

23 x shoota boyz, 2 big shootas plus nob with p-klaw, bosspole

11 x sluggaz plus nob, with p-klaw, bosspole riding in a trukk with ram

6 x nobz, 1 with pk and bp, 1 with pk, 1 with waaagh banner, 1 is a dok, all with cybork riding in a trukk with ram

20 x grotz, 2 x slavers

8 x lootaz

6 x bikes 1 is a nob with p-klaw and bosspole

killa kan - rokkit launcha

killa kan - rokkit launcha



What I notice is that he has a small unit count but quite a few bodies (33 3+ saves and 16 2+) and almost no tanks. This means I should be able to outmaneouver him and slam multiple units into one of his.

However nearly all his units are good at both shooting at assault. I don't really have the capability to bring the termies or GK down with shooting alone and assaulting them seems iffy too, especially with kantor hanging out nearby for the +1 attack. Considering his small unit count and kantor he will almost certainly be castling which will make a mockery of my multi-charge unless I can pull off a charge with practically everything at once.

Thoughts?

Err... Right. He has four lascannons at range, One cyclone and 2 psycannons. His assault termies are NOT in a vehicle. He's slow and his shooting sucks for SM.

Boost your loota count, put your boyz in battlewagons. Stay back and shoot the crap out of him.

You are not going to be able to win a close combat against him when he castles. Especially with Kantor and his Inspiring Presence... That's what he WANTS you to do.

If you are playing an objective game, force him to split off his forces by spreading the objectives. He's pretty slow and you can kill his forces piecemeal.

That is 1715 points. I am assuming you left some ups off and are going for 1750.
I would alter the list to something more like this:

Big mek - kff

15 lootas
15 lootas
6 Nobz - cyborked, painboy, 2 pk, 2 shoota skorcha combi, ammo runt, bosspole, waaagh! banner, trukk w/ red paint and ram

20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota
20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota
20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota

Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota
Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota
Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota

Park the lootas back so they are in cover but have a clear shot at the razorbacks. With 15 lootas shooting at each razorback, they will get them on turn 1.

Put the trukk of nobz in the center of the wagon wedge if he is castled in a corner - try to keep the sides of the wagons and the trukk away from him.

-------BW

BW Trukk BW

And roll up to 18" asap. Shoot everything like mad. After they pop the transports, put the lootas on the terminators - they will thin them out substantially. As he moves towards the wagons, back up and shoot. The nobs (with kff mek) in the trukk are to countercharge anything that makes it to your gunline and to mop up when the shooting is over.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
His list was the following

Pedro Kantor

8 x assault termies, 5 with th/ss and 5 with lightning claws

pardon? 5 add 5 = 10 not 8


8 x regular termies, 1 with a cyclone

10 tacs, flamer, lascannon and sarge with fist riding in a razorback with lascannons

10 tacs, flamer lascannon and sarge with pw riding in a razorback with lascannons

nah, you can take allied inquisition troops without an inquisitor. to take allied heavy support you need at least 2 troops and an HQ, or something like that... but who cares, allied heavy support sucks (except exorcists)

this is similar to what I did for 'ardboyz, except everything was mounted in land raiders (I had 3)....

grey knights are superior troops in every way, compared to basic marines.

No. Read the DH / WH codex. Answers regarding allies are WRONG.

0-1 HQ's
0-1 Elites
0-2 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack

No Special Characters or heavy support.

(Read the codex if you can)

Same for Witch Hunters

O'shovah is correct. You can take 2 troops which is completely legal. You can also take an HQ with a full retinue of terminators if you wanted (and had the points for it).

WOW! i know liitle about this game!

He has oddly little shooting for an army his size. You should be able to out-dakka him. Concentrate on the Grey Knights, they have stormbolters.

deadly chicken wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
His list was the following

Pedro Kantor

8 x assault termies, 5 with th/ss and 5 with lightning claws

pardon? 5 add 5 = 10 not 8




DC

erm quite, 5 x th/ss and 3 x lightning claws.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Raxmei wrote:He has oddly little shooting for an army his size. You should be able to out-dakka him. Concentrate on the Grey Knights, they have stormbolters.

How does shrouding work again? I know it isn't quite as good as night fight. Is it 3 dice x 3? Because shrouding may prevent me from shooting his GK effectively as anything within average range will be within range of his stormbolters and psycannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inigo Montoya wrote:That is 1715 points. I am assuming you left some ups off and are going for 1750.
I would alter the list to something more like this:

Big mek - kff

15 lootas
15 lootas
6 Nobz - cyborked, painboy, 2 pk, 2 shoota skorcha combi, ammo runt, bosspole, waaagh! banner, trukk w/ red paint and ram

20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota
20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota
20 boyz - nob w/ pk and bp, 2 x big shoota

Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota
Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota
Battlewagon - red paint, ram, rigger, kannon, 2 x big shoota

Park the lootas back so they are in cover but have a clear shot at the razorbacks. With 15 lootas shooting at each razorback, they will get them on turn 1.

Put the trukk of nobz in the center of the wagon wedge if he is castled in a corner - try to keep the sides of the wagons and the trukk away from him.

-------BW

BW Trukk BW

And roll up to 18" asap. Shoot everything like mad. After they pop the transports, put the lootas on the terminators - they will thin them out substantially. As he moves towards the wagons, back up and shoot. The nobs (with kff mek) in the trukk are to countercharge anything that makes it to your gunline and to mop up when the shooting is over.

erm no, 1749.


boss is 150
mek is 85
boyz are 194 x 3
trukkers are 112 and the trukk is 40
nobz are 250 and the trukk is 40
warbikes are 190
grotz are 80
lootaz are 120
kanz are 50 x 2

= 1749

Not sure how you managed that.



I appreciate all the advice guys but any advice on the "rebuild your list" lines doesn't really help me. The idea was to take our 2 lists from the tourney and throw them at each other. So I'm not changing my force in the slightest little bit to tailor to this opponent. And frankly I could have figured out "take more　lootaz" by myself. I was asking more for tactical and strategic advice than list critique. How would you use what is available to me in order to beat that?

Apparently the consensus seems to be "shoot it" and "try and get him to spread out". Well I can outshoot him to some extent, 8 big shootas at 36" and 8 lootaz at 48" vs 2 psycannons and the cyclone basically. If I use my bikes and kanz aggressively I can add 2 rokkits and their dakkaguns without fear of much retliation. Any ideas on how I can bring my shoota firepower into the fight without being charged/stormboltered to death. I'm thinking a grot screen coupled with the KFF will go a long way towards achieving this.


Any suggestions on how to trick my opponent into spreading out? Maybe deploying first with the fast stuff on one side and the foot sloggers on the other and then using a refused flank?

His list sucks. He's got 5 anti-tank weapons and not one meltagun. I'd say no only is he not scary he's not getting into the whole 5E vibe either.

No offense, but this list is almost perfect for orks. No AV14 and nothing that scary. Terminators OHHHH!! Swamp them. They truly aren't that scary.

Horst - Allied support is amazing. 2 meltaguns in a Rhino for 120 points? Uh yeah. Taking some SoB or GKT for backing up certain armies (IG especially) really works out well.

OOOKAY!

Don't get multi-charged. Simple as that. Make him setup first to spread his army and out deny flank him. A bit hard with the Boyz you got and no transport (/5Ewakeupslap) but you have to. Try to make sure to get YOUR multi-charges off and deny his with sacrificing units (grots) and even boyz or the bikes! Run and run faster untill you can assault.

If he corners himself in an objective mission, take the objectives and try and play "keep away". If it's killpoints, weaken his armor with Lootas and try to take out the tac squads fast.

Your list in its essence is weak so it's hard to do well against another suck list. That's probably the best advice I can give you but you being slow really hurts. Try to get the nobz + WB charging stuff FAST (try not to assult the termies, go for the weak units) and if needed, just run up and ID pedro with the warboss.

Use lootas to take out Razorbacks first. Screen Orks with Grots.

I agree with ezeck.

go EzeKK!!!

DC