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I have the following models:
- Deneghra
- 3 Slayers
- 2 Defilers
- 2 Deathrippers

It's all Jacks, but is it decent under WM2?

The Slayers credit is high right now, it got a lot of buffs in MKII and Deneghra is still a great caster. Massed arc-node Bonejacks are not so good IMO.

You have 31 points worth of models there in MKII, if you really want to go warjack heavy I would recommend one of the jack loving casters Mortenebra, Goreshade or eSkarre.
The balance of the game has shifted towards warjacks but you'll still need some iinfantry as most casters play better with combined arms.

Hmm... I could see myself fielding a Mortenebra - that's an interesting model.

I'll have to take a look at the infantry to see if anything catches my fancy.

Thanks, George!

Slayers and defilers are quite good in MK 2. Nothing wrong with a death ripper in general, and there can be quite a bit right with it when taken by some warcasters.

Could always try 3 slayers, 3 squads of 6 mech thralls, 2 defilers, a necrotech and a skarlock with deneghra and go for a 35 point bum rush. A min squad of mech thralls plus a slayer makes a nasty little 9 point team.

Mortenebra and three Slayers makes for a nice 15 point (equivalent to 350 in MKI) list.

Master Necrotech Mortenebra & Deryliss (-4)
Slayer (6)
Slayer (6)
Slayer (6)

14/15

I think I may purchase a second Slayer and play this with a Reaper instead of the third Slayer.

Beyond this you could add one or two of your bonejacks, it doesn't matter which as you''l probably acquire a preference for a particular one based upon your play style. Although the Defiler is more expensive its spray attack is rightly feared. The following list is playable at 25 points although I think its lack of diversity may start to affect you at this larger game size.

Master Necrotech Mortenebra & Deryliss (-4)
Slayer (6)
Slayer (6)
Slayer (6)
Deathripper (4)
Defiler (5)

23/35

You have twelve points left to spend on units and solos in a 35 point game (equivalent to 500 in MKI), perhaps you'd like to discuss models that appeal to you before we go into detail.

If you field Mortie, don't overlook those Stalkers and Helldivers. They exponentially increase in output with her spell list/feat.

I think the plan is to work with as many of the models he already owns as possible.

Yup.

Also, I don't like the non-bipedal Jacks so much.

I'll probably add a Machine Wraith, given that everybody will likely be fielding Jacks with the bonus points.

Maybe something else small to get to 35, and call it a day.

A Machine Wraith is only one point, you can take up to three of them.

If you're running Mortenebra then you can't take a Scarlock (she already has Deryliss, who is a Scarlock with additional abilities) and she can do her own repair work, although Necrotechs are only one point. If you're intent on using all of your warjacks (including the four bonejacks) then the only unit you could field in 35 points are minimum sized unit of Mechanithralls.

I'd prefer to use all 3 Slayers, and at least 2 Bonejacks, as they're all built & painted.

If the Slayer is OK, then that's a huge relief.

I'm certain that the three Slayers will be viable. Six point heavy warjacks are creating quite a stir locally especially amongst out Cygnar players who don't have access to any.

Cygnar has heavy jacks, and they get as cheap as 7 pts, so the extra point makes that much difference?

Cryx jacks are a lot lighter on armor, so I can see the Slayer being a point cheaper.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Cygnar has heavy jacks, and they get as cheap as 7 pts, so the extra point makes that much difference?

To clarify my point, they don't have access to any 'six point' heavy warjacks. They have one for seven points (Ironclad) and one eight point one (Hammersmith). The core of their warjacks forces (the ones you used to see in MKI) are nine points. I'm not suggesting an imbalance in power/points just a lack army composition flexibility in low point games.

We're playing a lot of 15 point games as people get used to MKII and those odd extra points can mean the difference between fielding another cheap light (or even a heavy) warjack or not.

Ironclad vs. Slayer

Points, Ironclad costs more
Armor, the Slayer has less
MAT, hey we're even!
DEF and SPD, the Slayer wins out by 1
Alpha Strike Advantage-Depends
*Ironclad Charges and Quake Hammers -- 10" Threat Knockdown, 2 focus
*Slayer Charges and Combo Strikes -- 9.5" Threat at P+S 22, 1 focus
*Knockdown only matters if you're going to follow up. Otherwise, the slayer shakes the effects
*P+S 22 hits at Dice + 4, Average 14 Damage on the charge against an Ironclad

In a 1v1 situation, the Slayer should get the first damaging attack in and the Cryx player
can choose between a single P+S 22 attack or two P+S 16 attacks. If the Slayer wants to
control the board with his Slayer vs. the Ironclad, then he has to two handed throw or
slam, but without follow up and with shake effects in play, I doubt the Cryx player wants
to put himself out there.

OK, thanks, guys - I'll keep the above in mind if I decide to get more competitive.

isn't a charge and combostrike 2 focus?? It is a special attack to combo-strike as far as I recall now...

No, Special attacks don't require focus to use.

mm, I always thought they cost an extra focus.. makes it more worthwhile to use then...

Back to the original post, I would keep Deneghra, and replace a slayer with that Reaper you were talking about. You will probably have to get rid of a Deathripper, but that Harpoon Drag is a monster ability.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Cygnar has heavy jacks, and they get as cheap as 7 pts, so the extra point makes that much difference?

Cryx jacks are a lot lighter on armor, so I can see the Slayer being a point cheaper.

No, the one point does not make that much of a difference and the Ironclad has a lot going for it that makes it a bargain for 7 points. Just like a Slayer is a bargain for 6 points. The Hammersmith is 8 points, just like the Reaper is 7 points, and then the rest of the Cryx helljacks cost 9-10 points, and all the rest of the Cygnar jacks cost 9-10 points.

Cygnar players as a group are fairly notorious for having persecution complexes.

Picked up a second hand Slayer today from my local FLGS for £8. It's in the stripper now but it'll be built for Thursday when I'll be road testing this:

Master Necrotech Mortenebra [-4]
Deryliss [0]
Slayer [6]
Slayer [6]
Reaper [7]

15/15

Cool, nice. I'll be very curious to hear how it goes.

With some luck, I'll be able to try a Slayer-based list when my group plays next.

How does the Reaper do with the new rules?

I have one, and picked up a 2nd for half off.

I would like to use one, but I am still getting used to using the Arc Nodes properly, and I don't feel ready for it.

He can drag heavies and has reach to go with his +1 MAT and RAT.

In my list above his purpose will be clearing charge lanes for the Slayer. Mortenebra will cast Terminal Velocity and charge the Warcaster, then one of the Slayers will charge in (making sure to also be in B2B with Mortenebra) and slap the opposing Warcaster silly (SPD 6+2+3, MAT 7, free Boosted hits + four focus from Mortenebra).

Dispatches from the Borken Coast

Game one: 15 point Mangled Metal: Mortenebra, Deryliss, Reaper, Slayer, Slayer (15/15) Vs. Shae, Freebooter, Freebooter, Nomad, Buccaneer (15/15)

Opening moves: Buccaneer nets the Slayer on my left flank, Reaper advances and returns fire, dragging the Buccaneer into melee with the knocked down Slayer. The Slayer demolishes the Buccaneer with focus to spare.

Midgame: Shae takes the initiative, Feats and lets the Nomad and a Freebooter demolish the Reaper.
Mortenebra is severely back footed by having three heavy warjacks in her face. She sends the Slayer on the right flank to destroy an unengaged Freebooter on the right flank but it fails to cause significant damage. Then she sends the Slayer on the Left flank to throw the Nomad into the other Freebooter. The Nomad is knocked down then Mortenebra casts void gate onto the knocked down Nomad preventing it or the Freebooter from gaining focus next turn.
Shae tries to force his disrupted forces forward. The Freebooter on my left attacks the Slayer using its chain attack to throw the Slayer over a nearby hill. The other Freebooter and Nomad do little without access to focus.
Mortenebra retaliates; she casts Jump Start, feats and charges the nomad. A fully focused Slayer also attacks the Nomad, causing massive damage. The Slayer on my left flank advances on the Freebooter in the centre and destroys it with the last of the focus.
Shae casts Blow the Man Down to slam the Slayer on my left into Mortenebra, damaging Mortenebra, knocking down the Slayer and disabling its right arm and Cortex.
Mortenebra, repairs the damaged Slayer and it advances up to the remaining Freebooter without attacking. The other Slayer ends the Nomad.

Endgame: Shae and the Freebooter demolish the Slayer on my left but it’s too little too late for Shae. Shae has hidden behind the Freebooter. Mortenebra charges the Freebooter then the Slayer advances on it, and using the focus on Mortenebra demolishes the Freebooter. Game over, victory to Mortenebra.


Game two: 15 point Mangled Metal: Mortenebra, Deryliss, Reaper, Slayer, Slayer (15/15) Vs. Karchev, Kodiak, Spriggan (13/15)

Opening moves: The game kicks of quickly. The reaper advances and drags the Spriggan into melee range then two focused up Slayers rip it to pieces.

Midgame: Karchev feats and charges the Slayer on my right, destroying it easily. The Kodiak charges but does not make contact.

Endgame: The reaper advances into Karchev and does little damage. Mortenebra feats, charges Karchev doing a little damage. The Slayer advances on Karchev and ends him. Game over, victory to Mortenebra.

George Spiggott wrote:
Endgame: Shae and the Freebooter demolish the Slayer on my left but it’s too little too late for Shae. Shae has hidden behind the Freebooter. Mortenebra charges it then the Slayer advances on it, and using the focus on Mortenebra demolishes the Freebooter. Game over, victory to Mortenebra.

Heh, I don't expect a newer player to figure out how to win this way. The using focus on
the Warcaster means you're thinking about placement, focus expenditure, and activation
order. Very tricksy.

Midgame: Karchev feats and charges the Slayer on my right, destroying it easily. The Kodiak charges but does not make contact.

Does this happen often? Was it close enough that you think you would have that
charge?

malfred wrote:Heh, I don't expect a newer player to figure out how to win this way. The using focus on the Warcaster means you're thinking about placement, focus expenditure, and activation order. Very tricksy.

To my mind this ability is one of Mortenebra's key abilities, all the heavy Warjacks hit better and harder than her and it's also focus allocation 'on the fly'.

Does this happen often? Was it close enough that you think you would have that charge?

He was just making up distance, he was definately too far away and would have, at best, mangled the Reaper which would have had little game effect.

I had a game afterwards with Epic Skarre, Leviathan, Seether & Helldiver vs. Sorscha, Beast 09 & Kodiak that forced me to check my inner douche (and re read my cards to make sure I didn't cheat somewhere). I got a jack kill win and the only damage I took was from Skarre's feat.

Nice reports, thanks, George!

No problem John. I love it when a plan comes together.

George Spiggott wrote:No problem John. I love it when a plan comes together.

Wait, your avatar is something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from that quote.