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Are the wolf guard (elites choice) under the rule where no two can have the same equipment?

Ivan

I think it applies to battle leaders only.

P.81 Says no two "Characters"
I would count character as an HQ

The Elite Wolf Guard are a unit even
if split between different squads they are
built as a unit.

The only time you have to worry about this rule is for Independant Characters and the Long Fang Squad Leader.

Also note that it doesn't matter if they are a different character type, A Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Power Armour, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, and Frag and Krak Grenades has the same wargear as a Wolf Lord with Power Armour, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, and Frag and Krak Grenades.

You could not use those two characters as they have the same wargear, despite being different due to their statline.

Unless of course you gave one a thundering great axe and the other TDA and uva stuff...?

Whats this about the Long Fang pack leader? He isnt a character is he? No more than a Wolf Guard anyway.

As a squad leader I think he would qualify as an upgrade character, and thus falls under the broader heading of character.

With Wolf Guard even though they can be very individual models I don't think they qualify as upgrade characters because they have the same statline as eachother.

Drunkspleen I am gonna have to disagree with you here. The Pack leader is not an Upgrade Character, it is just part of the unit.

RB page 47 wrote:Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from
the start of the game, representing a squad leader or
unit champion, such as a Space Marine Veteran
Sergeant. They do not have an entry of their own
and are effectively just another trooper in their unit,
with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider
selection of weapons and wargear choices.

Long Fangs pack Squad Leader is exactly that.

When the rulebook was written, veteran sergeants had to be bought (upgraded) Separately. A model that is always in a unit is not an upgrade character.

He fits perfectly into the definition as provided by Webbe, why suddenly are you arguing about "when the rulebook was written", what does that have to do with anything, and it's the sort of argument I have seen you scoff at repeatedly.

Drunkspleen wrote:He fits perfectly into the definition as provided by Webbe, why suddenly are you arguing about "when the rulebook was written", what does that have to do with anything, and it's the sort of argument I have seen you scoff at repeatedly.

Ok, tell me how does a model that always comes with the unit considered an "Upgrade"? And are you really suggesting that you cannot take 2 Long Fang Packs unless one of the pack leaders takes (for example) a power fist? Or that if you have a Long Fang Pack you cannot have a Wolf Lord with Bolt Pistol and CCW

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:He fits perfectly into the definition as provided by Webbe, why suddenly are you arguing about "when the rulebook was written", what does that have to do with anything, and it's the sort of argument I have seen you scoff at repeatedly.

Ok, tell me how does a model that always comes with the unit considered an "Upgrade"? And are you really suggesting that you cannot take 2 Long Fang Packs unless one of the pack leaders takes (for example) a power fist? Or that if you have a Long Fang Pack you cannot have a Wolf Lord with Bolt Pistol and CCW

First of all, yes I am suggesting that by RAW your other characters could not be armed the same as a Long Fang Pack Leader (including other additional Pack Leaders)

A model that always comes with a unit is considered an "Upgrade" because he is "just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices." he is also a "squad leader or unit champion", so he fits both definitions for what constitutes an Upgrade Character according to the rulebook.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:He fits perfectly into the definition as provided by Webbe, why suddenly are you arguing about "when the rulebook was written", what does that have to do with anything, and it's the sort of argument I have seen you scoff at repeatedly.

Ok, tell me how does a model that always comes with the unit considered an "Upgrade"? And are you really suggesting that you cannot take 2 Long Fang Packs unless one of the pack leaders takes (for example) a power fist? Or that if you have a Long Fang Pack you cannot have a Wolf Lord with Bolt Pistol and CCW

First of all, yes I am suggesting that by RAW your other characters could not be armed the same as a Long Fang Pack Leader (including other additional Pack Leaders)

A model that always comes with a unit is considered an "Upgrade" because he is "just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices." he is also a "squad leader or unit champion", so he fits both definitions for what constitutes an Upgrade Character according to the rulebook.

Except that the term "Upgrade" implies that he is optional.

no, the term upgrade implies that he is "just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices." or a "squad leader or unit champion".

Considering the term Upgrade Character is defined by the rules, there is no reason to attach some extra definition to it.

Face palm.

It applies to all IC's. Thats all Independent characters.

Everything else is covered for (That is, either are unique or simply obviously dont apply to the rule.)

At the very least, if you would like to eat some RAW, Only those I have mentioned have the term "Character" in their profile.

Razerous wrote:Face palm.

It applies to all IC's. Thats all Independent characters.

Everything else is covered for (That is, either are unique or simply obviously dont apply to the rule.)

At the very least, if you would like to eat some RAW, Only those I have mentioned have the term "Character" in their profile.

Time for another rule quote:

Codex Space Wolves, page 81 wrote:However, packs of Space Wolves work best when led by a
single dominant personality, each hero respected for his
own abilities. To represent this, no two characters may
bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic
powers or wargear combination. Space Wolves are far too
individual and proud for such unimaginative tactics!

emphasis mine

A character is normally either an independent character or an upgrade character.
Please see the rules quote in my previous post in this thread for the description of what an upgrade character is.

So you think that it is illegal to have 2 Long Fang Packs then?

Webbe wrote:

RB page 47 wrote:and are effectively just another trooper in their unit,

Long Fangs pack Squad Leader is exactly that.

I've snipped and bolded a section in the quote you've mentioned. Okay.

What im saying - Lets say that everything with the Independent Character rule counts as a Character. Yes? Make sense? Hard to grasp..

This is why I face-palm..

Gwar! wrote:So you think that it is illegal to have 2 Long Fang Packs then?

As you already mentioned yourself you can arm the differently.

You guys are missing the biggest part of this. For the record, I agree w/ gwar. Looking at the EXACT passage you guys have quoted on page 81, you have to note the asterisk involved in the box "*The leaders of the Pack". That asterisk is only above HQ units, note NOT above, say, long fang packs or Wolf Guard packs. that said, RAW, to me, say HQ's only adhere to the independent equipment.

Disclaimer, i am a noob, so i could be totally off.

Topher21 wrote:You guys are missing the biggest part of this. For the record, I agree w/ gwar. Looking at the EXACT passage you guys have quoted on page 81, you have to note the asterisk involved in the box "*The leaders of the Pack". That asterisk is only above HQ units, note NOT above, say, long fang packs or Wolf Guard packs. that said, RAW, to me, say HQ's only adhere to the independent equipment.

Disclaimer, i am a noob, so i could be totally off.

For a noob, you aren't half bad

I totally brainfarted and didn't even notice the Asterisk! Yes, the Asterisk is only above HQ, thus only those models are affected by the "Leaders of the Pack" rule.

Topher21 wrote:You guys are missing the biggest part of this. For the record, I agree w/ gwar. Looking at the EXACT passage you guys have quoted on page 81, you have to note the asterisk involved in the box "*The leaders of the Pack". That asterisk is only above HQ units, note NOT above, say, long fang packs or Wolf Guard packs. that said, RAW, to me, say HQ's only adhere to the independent equipment.

Disclaimer, i am a noob, so i could be totally off.

looks pretty solid to me, and this would mean my list with 3 lone wolves with MotW and 2 wolf sidekicks will work too.

Thanks!

Indeed, i would be up the creek w/o a paddle if it was written the other way, cause ide have to rewrite about 75% of my lists thus far. Glad i could help.

Absolutely right Topher21, while I still feel the Pack Leader is an upgrade character but that's no longer an issue in light of what you brought up.

Slightly OT. Can one equip a Wolf Lord in TDA with a Frost Blade in any way? I know you can in RA but it seems there's a major typo here.

No, you cannot.

Probably a balance thing.

Stygian Mole wrote:Slightly OT. Can one equip a Wolf Lord in TDA with a Frost Blade in any way? I know you can in RA but it seems there's a major typo here.

Lol, a "major Typo"? No, it's a balance thing.