Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let's say a Necron Lord is attached to a squad of warriors, and the entire squad is killed (including the lord) with no like models, monolith, tomb spider, etc. anywhere near them. The Lord makes his WBB roll, but does that mean that the entire squad gets a WBB roll to since the lord is now standing? Sorry if this sounds confusing.

Thnx

No. You check to see if you can make WBB all at once, at the start of the Movement Phase.

Also, even if the Lord survived, you couldn't make a WBB attempt. There has to be another Warrior within 6".

Just keep em on the table until another warrior walks over to get 'em up.

RxGhost wrote:Just keep em on the table until another warrior walks over to get 'em up.

Except this is cheating?

Lawl Doublepost somehow

Gwar! wrote:

RxGhost wrote:Just keep em on the table until another warrior walks over to get 'em up.

Except this is cheating?

lern 2 reed codecks

RxGhost wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

RxGhost wrote:Just keep em on the table until another warrior walks over to get 'em up.

Except this is cheating?

lern 2 reed codecks

NO U!

If there are no Warriors within 6", they can't make a WBB so are removed.

My lawyer has advised me: "No....U."

They are only removed from the table if they roll a 1-3 on their We'll Be Back check.

Ain't no boost without no trick.

How about "they cannot make a check at the point when they are required to therefore are removed"?

Not being able to take the check is equivalent to automatically failing it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:How about "they cannot make a check at the point when they are required to therefore are removed"?

Not being able to take the check is equivalent to automatically failing it.

Please post a page reference for that quote, I'm reasonably certain it doesn't exist in the Necron Codex. RaW says we can only do what the rules say we can, and the rules say you don't remove damaged necrons from play unless they roll a 1-3 on a self-repair check.

Just to take a contrarian stance, according to the 4th edition FAQ, a Necron model which was ineligible to self-repair was removed when doing the WBB rolls. The actual codex, and the current FAQ, make no statement about what to do about models which are face down but unable to self-repair.

It's fairly clear from the codex rules and the FAQ that if a model takes a fatal wound and the circumstances with the wound at that time prohibit self-repair then the WBB rule doesn't apply and the model is removed immediately. But once the model is placed face down on the table, the rules don't specify what happens if self-repair isn't allowed.

Naturally, it's in the Necron player's interest to argue for the "sleeping Necron" interpretation and their opponent's interest to argue for immediate removal. My copy of the Necron codex says @2002, and down near the bottom of that page it says 'Second Printing'. Is there a 'Third Printing' which incorporated the previous FAQ's statement from the previous FAQ about removing ineligible models along with those which fail their WBB rolls?

Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the link to the old FAQ.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-11_Edition.pdf

RxGhost wrote:Please post a page reference for that quote, I'm reasonably certain it doesn't exist in the Necron Codex. RaW says we can only do what the rules say we can, and the rules say you don't remove damaged necrons from play unless they roll a 1-3 on a self-repair check.

The rules state you must make a WBB roll for every downed model - not being able to make that roll IS equivalent to automatically failing it, as you have no chance of success.

It was in the 4th ed era FAQ as well, however I assume it was such an obvious answer, akin to "yes, the sky does appear blue", that they removed it from 5th ed.

Lordhat wrote:Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the link to the old FAQ.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-11_Edition.pdf

That's quite odd. I could have sworn that one of the earlier FAQ's had made a clear statement about ineligible models. I'll have to dig around to see if I can find a version earlier than 4.01 (2004-11).

It does look like they get to sit there until phase out, all units of their type are killed, or a chance to fail their WBB happens.

I found a document claiming to be Chapter Approved - Codex: Necron Q&A (v2.0) with

Q. If Necrons fail their WBB roll are they removed or do the remain there to try again next move? A. When a Necron has either failed a WBB roll or is ineligible to take one at the start of the Necron turn it is deemed to be destroyed and is removed, unless you intend to use a Monolith portal...

It doesn't look like webarchive.org downloaded PDF's, so I haven't been able to verify that I don't have an adulterated copy.

The odd thing is that the 2004 Chapter Approved has the same question, but the reference to ineligible models is removed.

The 5th ed FAQ pretty much says it wasn't answering all the questions covered in previous FAQs as they were already covered. I've taken this to mean you should use past FAQs for thingsthat are:
1) Not in the current codex
2) Not answered in the 5th edition FAQ
Is this appropriate?

The thing is, it's likely that the FAQ answer at one point (the V2.0 FAQ) was clearly against ineligible models waiting, and that answer was removed in the the later FAQ's and the 2004 Chapter Approved Annual, and the reason for the removal isn't clear.

Via the Internet Wayback Machine, from the Jun 22, 2004 version of the site. Here, in PDF. Kinda out of date for 5th edition play, though. Version 3.0 of the FAQ for 4th edition (where 4.01 was the last version, iirc).

Q. If Necrons fail their WBB roll are they removed or do they remain there to try again next move?
A. When a Necron has either failed a WBB roll or is ineligible to take one at the start of the Necron turn it is deemed to be destroyed and is removed, unless you intend to use a Monolith portal to teleport the unit during the current move. If for some reason you change your mind about using the portal, they are removed immediately.

While the question and answer aren't there anymore, it's possible that this part of the answer which is cited to answer this question this way was wrong. You read that you get rid of the models when they don't have an opportunity to roll from a question that's about something different.

T_VanderZwaag wrote:Let's say a Necron Lord is attached to a squad of warriors, and the entire squad is killed (including the lord) with no like models, monolith, tomb spider, etc. anywhere near them. The Lord makes his WBB roll, but does that mean that the entire squad gets a WBB roll to since the lord is now standing? Sorry if this sounds confusing.

Thnx

No. The warriors need another warrior within 6". So you remove the models from the table as they are dead. You do not leave them on the table. They automatically fail the WBB roll.

The problem is that nothing says the models are removed if they don't have an opportunity to take a WBB at the time that particular unit dies. While if there's no like model on the table they will never have an opportunity to WBB (so the question is moot), if there is another unit of similar models 2 or 3 turns of movement away, the downed ones may be there to take their roll when they move closer. They haven't failed a WBB yet, because they haven't had a WBB yet.

This seems to be the way it's supposed to work.

Interesting. I had been looking at the April 7, 2003 copy and it didn't have the V2 PDF.

gaylord500 wrote:The problem is that nothing says the models are removed if they don't have an opportunity to take a WBB at the time that particular unit dies. While if there's no like model on the table they will never have an opportunity to WBB (so the question is moot), if there is another unit of similar models 2 or 3 turns of movement away, the downed ones may be there to take their roll when they move closer. They haven't failed a WBB yet, because they haven't had a WBB yet.

This seems to be the way it's supposed to work.

No.
"When a Necron has either failed a WBB roll or is ineligible to take one at the start of the Necron turn it is deemed to be destroyed and is removed." From the FAQ. Also, if you read the book, there is nothing that states your understanding of the rule.

I really don't understand how it can be read like that. Seems a bit of a stretch. I will have to look at my book to make sure. But it seems to imply (if not actually state) that they are removed if they can't make a WBB roll.

headrattle, as gaylord500 pointed out, the answer in question included more than the question was asking about, and that portion of the answer was subsequently removed from all subsequent editions of the FAQ. So it is entirely possible that that part of the answer, the inclusion of ineligible models, was a mistake.

Tbh how it was explained to me for this purpose when I first started playing (with crons') Was an example Of Ap 3 weapons with a 3+ armour save. Since the AP3 weapon is better than the armour save the model is ineligible to make the save thus auto failing it. If you are not eligible for a WWBB roll due to no units of the same type/spyder in the correct distance the models are destroyed and they cannot sit around and wait for an attempt. Sorry if that sounded a little confusing but it was how I learned it.

Cheers

solkan wrote:headrattle, as gaylord500 pointed out, the answer in question included more than the question was asking about, and that portion of the answer was subsequently removed from all subsequent editions of the FAQ. So it is entirely possible that that part of the answer, the inclusion of ineligible models, was a mistake.

It is possible, but extremely unlikely. Your reading of the rule seems to stretch the RAW a bit too far, and usually if you are stretching the rule, then you aren't following it. For example, there was a group that was arguing that the Phase Out rule didn’t apply until the last turn because the rules stated “after all WBB rolls.” Meaning that they included future WBB rolls. One guy I played said that Space Wolves could force me to reroll any successful steal initiative rolls, and if I made it again, he could have me reroll it. Honestly, how can you make these statements?

So, it doesn’t state that if a model can’t roll a WBB roll, the model stays there until it can. It only states that you can’t make a WBB if you aren’t within 6” of a like model or there is a Tomb Spider. It states earlier that certain conditions won’t allow for a WBB roll. In fact, I am sure that it implies, if not outright states, that the ineligible models are removed. I just don’t have the book with me because I didn’t bring my book to work.

However, if you are playing against someone who agrees to these rules, by all means follow em. Just don’t pull this crap without oking it with the other player first. Plus, given the sorry state of the 5th ed. Necrons, maybe this expansion of the rules isn’t such a bad idea.

*Quick Note*

The Lord has a res orb.....

That just means that Warriors that would normally fail because they were normally denied a WBB roll by either an instant death or no armor save weapon can now make a WBB roll. If there aren't any warriors for 6" then they can't make the WBB roll anyway. You need a like model to make that roll.

No question on the res orb part of things right now. If it wasn't available, the res orb will never be available to the dead(er?) Necrons.

For a regular WBB roll, however, does it say anywhere that if it's not done the turn after the models are killed, the models are removed? If it doesn't, then it's possible to roll the WBB two or three turns down the line, when other warriors move within 6" of the downed ones. If the downed models fail the roll then, they're removed. If they don't, they get up.

Right now, the only thing that seems to say you take it off even if you didn't roll is a 4th edition FAQ, and not even the final Necron FAQ of the 4th edition. So there's nothing that says you do that now.

I thinks it ridiculous that some of you believe downed models stay on the table until a like unit is within range.