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I had 30 spider riders and realized i was going to break them up into units of 5 instead
of 10 so i converted 3 champions,banners, and musicians
did i mess up is it worth it for their to be banners and musicians in a cavalry unit
they are spider riders if i for got to mention it
please help

-deffskullz

I wouldn't give them full command.

the champion upgrade cost 12p and another spider only cost 13p.

and since it is the spiders that fight best why not take more of them?

As fast cav they aren't meant to be large units, and don't need champs or standards.

They are designed to run through cover, divert enemy hammer units and attack enemy skirmishers or warmashines.
I've found they also make excellent march blockers.

One nut here in Brisbane ran an all mounted goblin army a few years back with characters on chariots, Spider riders and wolf riders as core (He took larger units of them as well as small units), gobbo chariots as special and snotling pump wagons for rare.

Ended up with 8 chariots, 2 pump wagons and a bucket load of really, really suckful cav.

Though I've seen a guy play units of Wolf Riders with LA+Sh who therefore lost their Fast Cav rules but gained ranks. Basically M9 ranked units.

Light + Shield shouldn't remove fast cav rules if I remember correctly, only equipment that does that is barding (unless there's some specific rule for Wolf Riders that I don't know of)

Malecus wrote:Light + Shield shouldn't remove fast cav rules if I remember correctly, only equipment that does that is barding (unless there's some specific rule for Wolf Riders that I don't know of)

you dont remener correctly.
give a wolf rider a shield and they are no longer fast cav.

same thing for WoC marauders... light armor and shield = no longer fast cav.

What's the difference between fast cav and normal cav?

Fast Cav get a whole bunch of rules to make them more manouverable and shootier, and a nifty feigned flight special rule.

Da Boss wrote:Fast Cav get a whole bunch of rules to make them more manouverable and shootier, and a nifty feigned flight special rule.

is these rules in the rulebook or the armybook?

im trying to learn the rules of the game but havn't learned much about cavallry yet.

In the rulebook.

deffskullz wrote:I had 30 spider riders and realized i was going to break them up into units of 5 instead
of 10 so i converted 3 champions,banners, and musicians
did i mess up is it worth it for their to be banners and musicians in a cavalry unit

Champions are rarely worthwhile in fast cavalry. For Spider Riders, Musicians and Standards can be a Gork-send (Musicians always, as you are effectively Ld7 when it comes to rallying now, and standards for if you plan on flank-charging). Personally I'm more fond of 6-big Spider Riders (still can only not-rally when 1 strong, but in return can get the most attacks for their cost as well as slightly more durable), but units between 5 and 8 generally suffice.

ok so drop the champs...that shouldnt be too hard is 5 units of 5 spider riders enought all have 1 musician and 1 banner

Malecus wrote:Light + Shield shouldn't remove fast cav rules if I remember correctly, only equipment that does that is barding (unless there's some specific rule for Wolf Riders that I don't know of)

It's not necesarily the LA & Sh that stops them from being Fast Cav, it's the resultant save.

5+ save and Fast Cavalry in your description? You're good
4+ save and Fast Cavalry in your description? You no longer benefit from any of the Fast Cavalry special rules (in effect you stop being fast cav)

As the mount already provides a +1 on the AS you only need 2 more points of AS to stop being Fast Cav. It doesn't matter if it's from barding or regular armour. Though I've never known any Fast Cavalry model that had the option but Heavy armour + unbarded mount would also mean a 4+ save and the loss of Fast cav abilities.

Btw, back in 5th Ed. cavalry lost 1" of M if they had barding, maybe you were thinking of that?

BAWTRM wrote:

Malecus wrote:Light + Shield shouldn't remove fast cav rules if I remember correctly, only equipment that does that is barding (unless there's some specific rule for Wolf Riders that I don't know of)

Btw, back in 5th Ed. cavalry lost 1" of M if they had barding, maybe you were thinking of that?

that rule still is in the rulebook

Actually, my problem is that I'm doing things from the point of view of my Empire units (only fast cav I've ever used), and it's always been an issue of "don't put barding on outriders, or they won't count as fast cav". Didn't realize it was the total save, as I can't really see fast cavalry having (or even wanting) armored horses, the barding made sense. Thanks to all for clearing that up.

For Goblin Fast Cav:
Musician: Required. It makes them slightly less frustrating.
Champion: Maybe for huge games. These units aren't there for kills.
Standard: Never. You are handing your opponent 100 points if you do.

Things Goblin Fast Cav do: March Block. Harass flanks. Charge Redirect. Warmachine and solo wizard hunt. Be fast. Be a speed bump. Not cared about when thrown away. Not win combat by themselves. Run off the table. Die.

I run an all mounted goblin army. With orcs on boars. And warmachines. It's still real to me.

ok and is there a reccomended unit size and amount for around 1500-2000 points

I would use units of 5 each.
then some of them will reach the vulnerable areas in your opponetns army.

Malecus wrote:Actually, my problem is that I'm doing things from the point of view of my Empire units (only fast cav I've ever used), and it's always been an issue of "don't put barding on outriders, or they won't count as fast cav". Didn't realize it was the total save, as I can't really see fast cavalry having (or even wanting) armored horses, the barding made sense. Thanks to all for clearing that up.

It has nothing to do with the total armor save. Outriders have a rule that says that they are no longer fast cav if they have barding

Units of 5 or 6. 1 unit for every 500 points is probably the most you should squeeze into a list. Try and have at least two units at 1500+. They aren't reliable enough to count on one unit, and can be popular targets early in the game if the rest of your army is slow.