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I am planning on combining 5 squads of guardsmen using the combined squad rules and throwing in one commisar. The comissar and 5 sarge's will have power weapons and melta bombs, and there will be one vox in the group, but other than that all lasguns. This seems like it would be a cheap and somewhat unstoppable horde that could really clog up the board and never break due to the commisar. I plan on having Col Iron Hand following right behind them for his bonuses and just charging anything in its path or shooting 150 lasgun shots at whatever is in it's way using the Platoon Commander's orders. Not that it will do much. What are everyone's thoughts? Has anyone tried this yet? I did on a smaller scale and it worked pretty well against eldar. Just too many guardsmen to kill.

Maximizing the effectiveness of a single commissar in this way is generally a good idea, I think. Leaving the whole fifty man blob just with lasguns and some close-combat stuff makes them a nice target for tanks that can avoid being charged. Maybe it would be useful to put a plasma gun or two in there, just to be able to deal with one or two hard targets that laugh at lasgun volleys. Apart from that, fluffy and cool way.

Sounds good. My army's general theme is wave after wave of expendable men. I think I will throw a couple special weapons in there, they would be buried in the mob so they would be hard to kill also. I was planning on them getting in close combat so I didn't really think of it. I thought a priest might be worth it too but I'm trying to make the army more fun to play and flavorful rather than just pure winning and a priest doesn't really fit too well with a bunch of jungle fighters.

Add in a priest with eviscerator and they can actually rock things in HtH--including the dreadnoughts (and sentinels and warwalkers and killa kans) that would otherwise tarpit them for the entire game.

30-40 should be enough, though, with 2-3 power weapons. You don't really need 50 to do the job.

Rather than melta-bombs (take maybe 2 lots of em) try two sets of squad-wide krak grenades, So out of 50 men, the front leading 20 will have krak grenades.

I have used 3 combined squads and a commissar. With 4 power weapons, and a thrown in melta and flamer. I have had great results.

except when my commissar takes out one of my power weapon wielding sergants.

Maybe I can convert a priest to make him look a little more like a battlefield chaplain or something. I guess I don't really need 50, I just want to see the look on people's faces when they get charged by a mob of 50 guardsmen. Not too many guard players around here using much infantry. I want something that will draw attention at the center of the battlefield so I can work around it with valks and veteran squads.

Well I've seen firsthand a squad of 50 guardsmen with priests and commisars take a charge from a mob of 30 ork boyz, hold, and then chew through the orks and come out the other side with about 13 guys left (after 2-3 turns). But throwing in some countercharge like GKs really helps.

I use this set up frequently, at first as a joke, but now because it works so well.

I take:
50 guardsmen, 5 melta, 5 melta bombs, 5 power weapons, commissar with power weapon.

I use Creed instead of Iron Hand because he is over all more effective in my list and has a 24" range on his furious charge/fearless order.

What works great as well, is dropping the commissar and taking Yarrick. Yarrick gives them the effect of a priest, makes them fearless (I have failed the rerollable Ld9 test too many times) and adds some punch in HtH too.

It is a really fun squad, especially when you charge things like Bezerkers or Templar Crusader squads and wipe them out on the charge.

Just watch out for multiple flamer equipped squads, they can ruin you.

ALso, for fun, use this set up with Al'Rahem, and have the whole mob come in off a flank. That is good fun.

The nice things is that they can hurt anything they get in combat with apart from toughness 7 carnies or wraithlords.

for about the 300 points its costs to do this the group will take just about anything the same point cost in assault orcs stealers dont matter it dies

I think what you are saying is that Orks boyz or genestealers of equivalent points value beats the IG blob squad, although it is hard to tell. You should use some punctuation to make that sentence more legible.

The unit is not meant to trump anything in HtH, it also shoots incredibly well. With FRFSRF, it can put out a tremendous amount of las gun fire power which will shred infantry.

With 5 melta guns and 5 melta bombs, it is also tough vs. tanks.

Also, this unit pretty much assures you of an objective. It plops down on one and good luck getting it off.

I've run a LOT of blob squads since the new codex came out. In my experience...

Dont waste points on a priest. Certainly not even more points on an eviscerator. He's an independant character so has to get base to base to swing. Your opponent is not stupid. If the only thing in the squad that can hurt his dreadnaught/monster/bignasty is the eviscerator he's going to throw his attacks into the priest and squish it before it gets to swing. Eviscerators only ever survive to swing against vehicles... but if you want anti-vehicle punch, those 65 points you spent on a priest with eviscerator would have been much better spent on meltabombs, meltas, and/or krak grenades ("much better spent" mind you, not "I'd take melta bombs and krak grenades"). That said, when running Strakken lists I have on occassion put a basic stripped down priest in the squad for the rerolls to hit on the counterassault turn. But even then, it never seemed to be worth 45 points.

I dont suggest taking krak grenades or melta bombs. If you're assaulting a vehicle with grenades it means you wasted a massive amount of anti-infantry firepower by not shooting at an appropriate target with all your rifle fire. If you dont have an anti-infantry target available in range, that's why I recommend autocannons (see below). For blob squads melta bombs are primarily only anti-dreadnaught weapons - and not very good at that job, honestly. You're better off spending those points on other weapons elsewhere in your army to knock out the dreadnaught before it ties up your blob.

If you're running Strakken, it'd be foolish not to give all sgts and the 1 commissar power weapons.

Always take special weapons. If you're wanting a human wave army where the blob will be moving every turn, take Grenade Launchers at the very least. Theyre dirt cheap and that 24" assault will get to shoot even if they footslog that turn. Some people like plasma, although that gets expensive. Some people like meltas but those work best against vehicles and you're wasting large amounts of lasrifle fire shooting at vehicles. Flamers are a cheap option too. Whatever flavor you like is fine... but always run special weapons, it's a significant part of a blob squad's punch.

Even with big melee-oriented blob squads, always run the maximum number of heavy weapons and stick them up front. I find autocannons are a great option for this since theyre dirt cheap, great value for those points, and are good weapons for dealing with both infantry and light vehicles. There WILL come turns where it is in your best interest to sit and shoot rather than maneuver. If you didnt take heavy weapons you dont even have the option. That said, even if you plan on moving every turn, always take (cheap) heavy weapons anyway. Put them up front, base to base with the enemy so you can measure the 2" fight zone from the back edge of their HUGE bases. You'll get way more guys to swing that way (if you move carefully it's entirely possible that all 50 men will get to swing). Some people use mortars for this (it being the cheapest heavy weapon at 5 points) and that's about the only reason to use a mortar that I can think of... but I'd argue it's always worth the few extra points for autocannons instead.

As a general rule I think you'll find that a blob squad in cover is so tough it's not worth bothering to shoot at (barring specialized weapons like Hellhounds, Whirlwind incendiary munitions, etc). But a blob squad outside of cover is NOT as tough as it's 50 man size would imply. Even a simple tactical marine squad rapid firing into them is going to whittle that squad down dramatically. God forbid they catch a couple of pieplates while in the open. I think you'll find that big melee-oriented blob squads are pretty decent for protecting your own side of the table from being swept... but are MUCH less effective at getting across the board and sweeping their stuff off their side.

Anyway, good luck and have fun experimenting. Blob squads are definitely one of those things that people prefer to flavor to their own taste so feel free to take my advice or not. It's your army, after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I usually run two 31 man blobs backed by Strakken in mid-point-level games. Stuff I've taken down with those blobs (armed with power weapons):

Berserkers
CSM squads (Plague Marines are harder because T5)
Tactical squads
Assault Marines
Scout squads
Mid-sized Ork mobs (large ones WILL beat you)
Mid-sized Tyranid mobs
Most types of Eldar troops
Kroot
Misc other stuff

Things that will beat or neutralize a blob squad pretty handily:

Marine/CSM squads that hit the squad with flamers before assaulting.
Large mobs of orks
Nob bikerz (we just cant do enough wounds)
Burna Boyz will torch the blob and not bother assaulting
Dreadnaughts will tarpit them
Big nasty monstrous creatures will tarpit them
Nightbringer will make them flee
Large squads of genestealers will win

NVM i failled

I saw this type of combined unit in action this past weekend at an Indy GT... the first time I noticed it was versus a good SW player (old codex) and I was shocked to see how well it did. The next game was versus Chaos Space Marines and it did a number on them as well. I don't think you need 50 models as has been previously pointed out. It's a very strong unit. I think the best way to counter it is attack with a walker or just shoot it to death. It's a great unit for IG.

G

I've recently started playing Imperial Guard at the same time my friend has started to rebuild his Dark Eldar army (Poor guy!!) needless to say I have found that large squads of 30 Guardsmen with a Commissar really does take the mickey out of most things he can throw at me.

Special Weapons are a must. If your trying to really go for a hoard army then Grenade Launchers and Flamers are dirt cheap and surprisingly effective weapons. Grenade launchers are versatile weapons, able to throw out blast templates for other blob type squad or a strong shot, they can also move and fire... Flamers are very potent in 4th edition due to ignoring cover and of course ignoring BS 3

It's worth watching out for things that can unleash a large amount of shots or use templates of any kind. Anything that can deep strike with high firepower is also nasty. Scourges are a good example of this with a squad able to pounce on your squad and unleash a silly amount of firepower with Splinter Cannons.

Either way it is a fluffy way to play guard. 50 men might be over the top but then it might also be fun to play them like that just to watch an opponent struggle to deal with them without exposing his army to the rest of your firepower.

On that note though I'd like to say, watch out for Dreadnaughts. I've had someone try to do this to my drop pod army. Needless to say an Ironclad dropping next to his squad armed with 2 heavy flamers and his pod with a deathwind only resulted in one very very mushy guard squad.

This is the Troops slot I intend to try next:

PCS - 3 grenade launchers, vox 50
Chimera - ML, hull HF 55
Infantry Squad - autocannon, flamer, commissar w/ PW, sarge w/ PW, voxcaster 125
Infantry Squad - autocannon, flamer, sarge w/ PW 75
Infantry Squad - autocannon, flamer, sarge w/ PW 75

The idea is this; disgusting objective campers. Sit them in cover like this:

Edge of Cover
Flamers, sargeants, and commissar
Autocannons
Everyone else

All you have to do is hang around, shooting at infantry with your double-tap 24" FRFSRF range, waiting for them to get in range of a 6" move and flame/triple-shot. Assuming enemies want to stop getting inundated by lasgun fire, they've got to charge the stubborn guardsmen morass.

The autocannons serve two purposes; as Ivan mentioned, they're wonderful for getting everyone to fight first turn. Between the 6" consolidation, and the 2" from dread bases, it's easy to get even 50 guys fighting. Secondly, they leave you the option to at least potshot at tanks if you lack infantry to shoot at (very likely on turn 1, and sometimes 2), as well as being respectable anti-infantry guns in their own right.

Ivan wrote:
I dont suggest taking krak grenades or melta bombs. If you're assaulting a vehicle with grenades it means you wasted a massive amount of anti-infantry firepower by not shooting at an appropriate target with all your rifle fire

One thing I'd like to mention about this, that melta bombs have done for me; tank shock protection. If you string a handful of meltabombs across the front of your unit, an opponent is far less likely to send his rhino careening through there when it's so likely to be blown up. In actuality, the exploding rhino would be plenty lethal in it's own right, but this is a meta-game tool anyway.

Ivan wrote:For blob squads melta bombs are primarily only anti-dreadnaught weapons - and not very good at that job, honestly

You're probably right here, though again a useful meta game tool. If my opponent knows there are 3 meltabombs he can't get to in the unit, he's less likely to send the dread in. And if he does, I still have a ~21% chance per turn to blow him up. He's only going to kill 2 or 3 guard a turn, you might as well roll for the 6s. Once again, the dreadnought exploding would likely cause more damage than the dread's actual melee attacks, but I digress.

My only problem is every time I look at this unit on paper, a part of my brain screams, "YOU COULD BUY ALMOST TWO AND A HALF DEMOLISHERS FOR THAT!" I've never actually tried a blob squad without power weapons, 30 guardsmen with a commissar and 3 flamers seems like it would still be respectable for 200 pts....

Remove the pweapons, replace with autocannons.
Your squad just became both mroe surviveable and scarier.

Brutoni wrote:I've recently started playing Imperial Guard at the same time my friend has started to rebuild his Dark Eldar army (Poor guy!!) needless to say I have found that large squads of 30 Guardsmen with a Commissar really does take the mickey out of most things he can throw at me.

Scourges are a good example of this with a squad able to pounce on your squad and unleash a silly amount of firepower with Splinter Cannons.

Dark Eldar have one of the best answers to this unit. Horrofexes! Blast hits 5 guys? Pin check -5. And if your friend is bringing scourges he needs some help re-writing his list.

I am getting a lot of ideas from this thread.

I have a hvy weapons squad with 3 autocannons, I will put them into the mob instead of using them on their own. I guess I didn't really think of putting them in the mob. I will add in some grenade launchers and flamers as well. I was thinking that it would be constantly moving therefore they would not fire very often but I can see how it would be useful to wait on an objective or if you use the mob as a human shield around tanks. There may be better ways to spend 300+ points, but I perfer diversity and a well rounded army as opposed to loading up on demolishers. Here's my army list so far in general. I don't have the points in front of me, but it is about 2000 total, and I may forget a few things I just wanted to give everyone an idea of what I am working with. I have a lot of random models that have been accumulated from years of gaming and some trades and I am finally trying to put them together into a cohesive army and paint them decently so not everything is really the best choice but what I have. I am trying to avoid buying more models until I finish what I have!

2000 points total:

Company Command Squad: Iron Hand, Medic, Vox, Company Standard, Heavy Flamer, 2 bodyguards with sunglasses
Chimera with Heavy bolter in turret, pintle stubber, and hvy flamer in hull

Platoon Command Squad: Power fist on junior officer, platoon standard, 2 grenade launchers, vox

Special weapons team: 3 sniper rifles

Special weapons team: 3 sniper rifles

Heavy weapons squad: 3 lascannons (I dont like this config, not worth the points IMO but I have the models painted)

Heavy Weapons Squad: 3 autocannons (plan on doing away with and putting in mob squad)

combined squad: 50 guardsmen, 1 Commisar, 6 pwr weapons, 6 melta bombs, need to add spec. weapons and autocannons with points from doing away with autocannon squad.

Veteran Squad: Power fist, 3 melta guns, rest with laspistols

Valk: Multiple Rocket Pods, Multilas, Hvy Bolters

Veteran Squad: Demolitions, Power fist, 2 plasma guns, Heavy Flamer, rest with laspistols (probably too many points here but it is flavorful)

Vendetta: 3xTL lascannon

Leman Russ with Hull hvy bolter

LR Executioner with hull Hvy bolter and Hvy bolter sponsons

Griffion Mortar

to me it seems fairly well rounded, but I haven't play tested much. Have not had much time to play with moving and everything. Maybe needs a little more anti armor firepower?

gardeth wrote:Dark Eldar have one of the best answers to this unit. Horrofexes! Blast hits 5 guys? Pin check -5. And if your friend is bringing scourges he needs some help re-writing his list.

That's where good ol' Yarrick really comes in handy - he makes units within 12" Stubborn with his "Inspirational Hero" rule.

I'm going down the "huge-ass conscript force with commissars" route, myself. Three Platoons of three squads provide the firebase, while each platoon has either a 20 or 30 man conscript force w/commissar and "Send In the Next Wave" attached. Yarrick and a Chimera full of Ogryns provide some leadership and "punch" in HTH, while Straken in another Chimera makes 'em all angry, angry conscripts with Furious Charge and Counterattack...

I'm hoping to exhaust my opponent with so many "to wound" rolls that he collapses and I can claim the victory!

Commissar Molotov wrote:
That's where good ol' Yarrick really comes in handy - he makes units within 12" Stubborn with his "Inspirational Hero" rule.

Stubborn only helps with negative modifiers during moral checks ... If your taking a pinning check at -5 you're royally -ed

Just make sure you get the charge off, and make sure you're stubborn and not fearless.

Tri wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:
That's where good ol' Yarrick really comes in handy - he makes units within 12" Stubborn with his "Inspirational Hero" rule.

Stubborn only helps with negative modifiers during moral checks ... If your taking a pinning check you're royally -ed

Wow. I've been playing that one totally wrong...thanks!

Or you could just use Yarrick's fearlessness and actually put him in the squad, and remove casualties as to isolate him before it comes to morale check time.

Tri wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:
That's where good ol' Yarrick really comes in handy - he makes units within 12" Stubborn with his "Inspirational Hero" rule.

Stubborn only helps with negative modifiers during moral checks ... If your taking a pinning check at -5 you're royally -ed

"Get back in the fight" order overrides pinning though, right? With the commisar in there you make the order test on his leadership?

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Tri wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:
That's where good ol' Yarrick really comes in handy - he makes units within 12" Stubborn with his "Inspirational Hero" rule.

Stubborn only helps with negative modifiers during moral checks ... If your taking a pinning check at -5 you're royally -ed

"Get back in the fight" order overrides pinning though, right? With the commisar in there you make the order test on his leadership?

yes but I would pin the massive scary blob and then go after the tasty Officer/s.

Pin, with tau pinning weapons and modifyers? Yes - that would be useful.

(Is pinning a morale test? I cant remember, if it is.. the the blob squad's with a stubborn giving Commissar are virtually immune with LD9 re-rollable.... otherwise a good tactic).

Razerous wrote:Pin, with tau pinning weapons and modifyers? Yes - that would be useful.

(Is pinning a morale test? I cant remember, if it is.. the the blob squad's with a stubborn giving Commissar are virtually immune with LD9 re-rollable.... otherwise a good tactic).

Nah, it's a leadership test, unfortunately.

Fearless troops automatically pass all Morale and Pinning tests they are required to take BRB pg 75

Yeah, that is why i have found Yarrick to be the best bet for this squad.

He keeps that big, expensive asset in the fight.

I love the blob squad, it works well and with a combo of Yarrick and creeds furious charge order, they kick the gak out of things and they shoot like hell.

I have to disagree pretty strongly with not giving them melta bombs.

It is not a lot of points and I find I use this squad very aggressively. I find that you can VERY often multi charge because of the size of the squad. You can get a transport vehicle or two and a squad or two in the net, and having those melta bombs lets you take out vehicles with a high degree of success.

Also there are times when you just want to get further up the field and the charge lets you do that, having the ability to take down any armored target is a serious plus, in my book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to the poster who advised not giving them power weapons, run the math on the squad.

Even without rerolls to hit or with furious assualt, on the charge it is 24 str3 power weapon attacks burried 50 bodies deep. That is no joke.

With furious assault and rerolls, it is a slaughter.

IMO, it is well worth the investment.