Californians now required to give thumbprint to buy bullets for kids guns

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**Frazzled**

Icnludes .22LR. Gee guys how about focusing on the machine guns coming across the border instead?

http://www.redding.com/news/2009/oct/12/gov-signs-ammunition-sales-bill/

Schwarzenegger signs ammunition sales bill

By Ryan Sabalow
Posted October 12, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. , updated October 12, 2009 at 9:18 a.m.
Email Discuss Share » Digg Facebook LinkedIn MySpace Print A A A Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger today signed into law a bill that requires buyers of handgun ammunition to leave thumbprints and detailed personal information with registered ammo sellers, as well as put restrictions on online bullet sales.

“Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers,” Schwarzenegger said in a letter explaining his decision.

The new restrictions will take effect Feb. 1, 2011.

Authored by Assemblyman Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, the bill bans direct shipping to Californians who buy bullets via mail order or over the Internet.

Instead, any ammo they buy would need to be picked up at a licensed handgun ammunition dealer, similar to the way guns are currently bought and sold.

The bill doesn’t require a waiting period to pick up ammunition as there is when purchasing firearms. All handgun ammunition must be kept behind store counters.

Ammunition that can be used in both pistols and rifles — like the popular .22 caliber round used by target shooters and small game hunters — fall under the new restrictions.

The bill also would require that those purchasing ammunition provide photo ID and a thumbprint.

The information would be kept on file and made available to law enforcement agencies.

Around a dozen gang-plagued cities in California have enacted similar local ordinances, geared to keep gang members from buying ammunition or tracking them down when they do.

De Leon spokesman Dan Reeves has said the local laws have helped police track down 200 criminals who bought handgun ammunition. Some were drug dealers and many had large caches of illegal guns or explosives.

Under the law, anyone who knowingly sells handgun ammunition to a felon would be committing a misdemeanor. The law also would make it a misdemeanor for documented gang members to possess handgun ammunition.

The bill has been criticized by gun rights advocates, online ammunition retailers and Republicans.

John Moffett, a clerk at Jones’ Fort gun store in Redding, said today that the bill will put an extra regulatory hurdle on consumers and ammunition dealers.

“It’s going to be a hassle on both ends,” Moffett said.

Though Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill in 2004, saying the federal government’s attempt at similar legislation proved to be “unworkable and offered no public safety benefit,” the governor today said that De Leon’s bill struck a fair balance between public safety and didn’t put undue burdens on bullet vendors and firearms dealers.

Reporter Ryan Sabalow can be reached at 225-8344 or at rsabalow@redding.com.

**Kilkrazy**

How many people get injured/killed by kids' guns compared to adults'?

**Frazzled**

Who knows? the last time I was in LA they had 18 people shot in drive bys. Not one involved someone pumping someone else with a Marlin Youth.

Its an excellent way to make costs go up if you can't buy ammo online. Cabelas came out with the statement that if this actually occurs they will no longer do business in California.

**Oldgrue**

I dunno, I've always been of the opinion that ammunition is more easily and reasonably regulated than the weapon.

'...keep and bear arms...' is all fine and dandy, but ammunition controls reduce the chances of innocent bystanders getting hit. Not a whole lot of 'drive by knifing' events go on despite the crazy knives available.

Its not a perfect solution by any means but its as reasonable as taxing cigarettes.

**Kilkrazy**

It's pretty shocking that a Republican governor would sign such a bill.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:It's pretty shocking that a Republican governor would sign such a bill.

RINO

**Fateweaver**

Yeah no doubt. I'm thinking maybe he was pressured to sign it. I imagine being a Republican governor in a Democratic State isn't easy. I know Ventura had difficult times passing bills and laws in Mn.

**Frazzled**

Reagan did all right.

**Fateweaver**

Not saying it can't be done Frazz but I'm sure it's not easy when 90% of the state (just pulling that number out of thin air as I'm not sure how Cali is divided amongst Left and Right) is against you.

Ventura was one of Mn's best governors even though many felt he didn't have a chance in Hell. He did some stupid stuff (lots of it non PC, lol) but he didn't really gak this State up any worst than it was (or is).

**Ultrafool**

Yays, now they will fill those candy dispensers with bullets and shells for the kiddies.

**Orkeosaurus**

We should build a huge wall across the border.

**nathonicus**

"Around a dozen gang-plagued cities in California have enacted similar local ordinances, geared to keep gang members from buying ammunition or tracking them down when they do.

De Leon spokesman Dan Reeves has said the local laws have helped police track down 200 criminals who bought handgun ammunition. Some were drug dealers and many had large caches of illegal guns or explosives. "

Seems like a good, thing, right?

**dogma**

Fateweaver wrote:Not saying it can't be done Frazz but I'm sure it's not easy when 90% of the state (just pulling that number out of thin air as I'm not sure how Cali is divided amongst Left and Right) is against you.

Its about 60/40 going by Presidential elections, and depending on the candidates being considered.

**Lordhat**

Eh, they'll all be over here to buy their ammo soon enough. I know several Californians who've come to Arizona and gotten in-state ID's so they could buy CA-banned firearms to defends themselves with.

**VermGho5t**

I think this will just push more people into reloading their own hulls/brass. And thus in turn the liberals will move to attempt to limit reloading supplies/accessories. Which they've already done.

**Kilkrazy**

It must be a tedious fiddly job reloading 22LR cartridges.

**Frazzled**

You effectively can't reload .22LR.

I foresee stores opening up just acroess the border, or this never coming to pass.

Local laws like this leading to 200 arrests-thats just an unenforcbile lie. Must be from the same statistians saying the Mexicans are buying those machine guns and grenades they are using to shoot each other with at gun stores in the US.

**MagickalMemories**

I don't see a problem with it.
What's the problem?
He's not saying you can't buy them. He's saying you have to provide personally identifiable information when you do.
What's the problem with that?

I can see how someone with something to hide would be bothered. What about someone without it?

Eric

**gorgon**

Because that's the first step toward the socialists and communists rounding us up and putting us in re-education camps, MM. Don't you know this?

AVENGE ME, BOYS! AVENGE ME!

Back on topic, how is a .22LR for "kids"? Among our arsenal, my family had .22 rifles and pistols for varmint duty, trapping, etc. and I hardly thought of them as a child's toy. They're legitimate firearms and should be treated as such.

**Frazzled**

gorgon wrote:Because that's the first step toward the socialists and communists rounding us up and putting us in re-education camps, MM. Don't you know this?

AVENGE ME, BOYS! AVENGE ME!

Back on topic, how is a .22LR for "kids"? Among our arsenal, my family had .22 rifles and pistols for varmint duty, trapping, etc. and I hardly thought of them as a child's toy. They're legitimate firearms and should be treated as such.

Kids use them MS-13 does not use them. Here endeth the lesson.

**BlackSpike**

What is a "kids gun"?
Why are kids being allowed guns, and what is wrong with limiting access to guns/ammo for kids?

**Frazzled**

BlackSpike wrote:What is a "kids gun"?
Why are kids being allowed guns, and what is wrong with limiting access to guns/ammo for kids?

1. They are guns typcially shot by kids for target practice and plinking. There is some high end target practice as well.
2. You British are so cute. Both firearms and ammunition are already illegal for children. Its bought by the parents for them (sigh).

**Kilkrazy**

The obvious solution is to switch your children to higher calibre weapons.

No kids' bullets, no registration. Profit!

Admittedly it might be difficult for smaller children to handle a big gun but perhaps they could be started off with a 0.410 shotgun or something like Italian 9mm Corto rounds (do they still make those?)

**Sol Invictus**

So when I think of childrens guns I think of bb guns. Do you have to thumbprint to buy bbs?

On a more serious note, who buys children handguns? Is that common in California? I know when I was learning to shoot it was on a .22 rifle and a .410 shotgun and then later handguns under parental supervision. It seems like they're trying to use children's safety to veil ammo tracking. Seriousely how many children have handguns?

**Frazzled**

Don't forget .22 rifles. Sol.
But yea, its stated as being ammo tracking-no veil about it.

**MagickalMemories**

Sol Invictus wrote: So when I think of childrens guns I think of bb guns. Do you have to thumbprint to buy bbs?

On a more serious note, who buys children handguns? Is that common in California? I know when I was learning to shoot it was on a .22 rifle and a .410 shotgun and then later handguns under parental supervision. It seems like they're trying to use children's safety to veil ammo tracking. Seriousely how many children have handguns?

My nephew is almost 14. He has his own rifle for hunting. Has had one for nearly 4 years now, I think.
Obviously, he didn't go buy it himself. My brother and sis-in-law bought it.

Eric

**Fateweaver**

It's funny how the suburbanites here in Mn and from other North-Central states find it absurd that parents take their kids hunting at ages as young as 6years old. Going out with dad or uncle at 6 hunting for the first time, here in Northern Mn, is as normal as going to school everyday. It's just kind of...expected, especially amongst families who hunt.

I see nothing wrong with it. It gets them educated about guns and gun safety and as long as you pay attention to little Billy at all times nobody will get hurt (unless you expect little Billy to hunt deer with a 500 S&W for which he'd probably split his own skull with the recoil or break a wrist).

**Zad Fnark**

Fateweaver wrote:It's funny how the suburbanites here in Mn and from other North-Central states find it absurd that parents take their kids hunting at ages as young as 6years old. Going out with dad or uncle at 6 hunting for the first time, here in Northern Mn, is as normal as going to school everyday. It's just kind of...expected, especially amongst families who hunt.

Same here (WI). You don't screw with such tradition around here.

You wouldn't be near Duluth, would ya?

ZF-