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All comments are welcome, I'm trying to build a well rounded take-all-comers army for tournaments.

CCS
Medi-Pack
Sniper Rifle x2
Master of Ordnance

Platoon Command Sqaud
Medi-Pack
Sniper Rifle x2
Infantry Squad x5
Meltagun x1 all
Heavy Weapons Squad x4
Lascannon x3 all

Veteran Squad (geared to hold off hordes and hang close to the grey knights)
Heavy Flamer
Flamer x2
Shotgun for rest

Grey Knights Squad (geared to close combat and holding objectives)

Armored Sentinel Squad (each in its own fast attack slot)
Lascannon all

Leman Russ Battle Tank x3 (each in its own heavy slot)
Lascannon /no side sponsons


Right now I'm trying to decide what to deploy first turn and what works best in reserves. Also need to figure out how to deploy on the table. So far the line across the deployment zone leaves me spread to thin. Deploying in a big blob works well so far but I haven't played against any major template heavy armies yet.

Unfortunatley, you've got some real work to do if you want to make a competitive list.

Your biggest problem is your lack of mobility. IG can play a more static game, but it is going to be impossible to win certain missions without the ability to get troop units onto objectives. You need to either buy some Chimeras or some Valkyries / Vendettas. Along those lines, Sentinels are generally weak platforms. Consider replacing the armored Sentinels with Chimeras to gain some much needed mobility.

You've also got some bloat in your army. If you drop the Medi-Packs and downgrade the Leman Russ lascannons to heavy bolters you can free up over 100 points.

Look critically at the Grey Knights. I don't have a ton of experience with them, but they always struck me as dubious in an IG list.

Finally, you have some poor wargear options. Foot infantry squads should always have either an autocannon or a lascannon. Meltas only really belong on mobile squads. Sniper Rifles need to be paired with Psykers to be remotely worthwhile. Shotguns are never a good choice.

why no shotguns on vets? I've never tried em but I always thought they might work well since the vets don't have to stand still to get 2 shots, and anything outside of 12 inches is out of melta range anyway so the damage with 6 lasguns seems like it would be neglegible. Like I said though I've never actually tried em, this is all speculation.

I probably overstated it, but the way I see it, the lasgun can fire equally well on the move, and can fire up to 24" on turns the Veterans stay put. Plus, occasionally you may use orders to give the lasguns an extra shot, which isn't an option with shotguns.

In exchange for the improved firepower, you give up the ability to initiate a charge. But if you're deploying from vehicles, as you should be, initiating a charge isn't even an option. And even if you're on foot, there are very few situations where a Veteran squad will want to initiate a charge.

Dave47 wrote:I probably overstated it, but the way I see it, the lasgun can fire equally well on the move, and can fire up to 24" on turns the Veterans stay put. Plus, occasionally you may use orders to give the lasguns an extra shot, which isn't an option with shotguns.

In exchange for the improved firepower, you give up the ability to initiate a charge. But if you're deploying from vehicles, as you should be, initiating a charge isn't even an option. And even if you're on foot, there are very few situations where a Veteran squad will want to initiate a charge.

In my limited experience, meltavets and flamervets are very happy with shotguns. Anything else might as well just stick to lasguns.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Dave47 wrote:I probably overstated it, but the way I see it, the lasgun can fire equally well on the move, and can fire up to 24" on turns the Veterans stay put. Plus, occasionally you may use orders to give the lasguns an extra shot, which isn't an option with shotguns.

In exchange for the improved firepower, you give up the ability to initiate a charge. But if you're deploying from vehicles, as you should be, initiating a charge isn't even an option. And even if you're on foot, there are very few situations where a Veteran squad will want to initiate a charge.

In my limited experience, meltavets and flamervets are very happy with shotguns. Anything else might as well just stick to lasguns.

DoW

Hahaha, you might as well have stated 'all vets' here, considering those are the two ways to kit them out.

Thanks for the input, i'm not sure how i'm gonna go about making them mobile yet but i see that the sentinels are the easiest to cut without effecting usefulness of the army. So far I have played 2 games with this army, both were against black templar and both times i just wiped them out. I haven't tried an objective mission yet, both times were just for annihilation sake.

@ Dave47
What is the relation between taking pyskers with a unit of snipers? was there something i missed like a buff?

I'm a big fan of long range shooty with the guard, so what if i drop the medi and make it 4x sniper rifles in both command squads?

Fearspect wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Dave47 wrote:I probably overstated it, but the way I see it, the lasgun can fire equally well on the move, and can fire up to 24" on turns the Veterans stay put. Plus, occasionally you may use orders to give the lasguns an extra shot, which isn't an option with shotguns.

In exchange for the improved firepower, you give up the ability to initiate a charge. But if you're deploying from vehicles, as you should be, initiating a charge isn't even an option. And even if you're on foot, there are very few situations where a Veteran squad will want to initiate a charge.

In my limited experience, meltavets and flamervets are very happy with shotguns. Anything else might as well just stick to lasguns.

DoW

Hahaha, you might as well have stated 'all vets' here, considering those are the two ways to kit them out.

Well you've got plasmavets who can't assault if they shoot rapid fire and Harker's Veterans who work very well sitting in cover at medium distance so wouldn't benefit from the assault 12".

But you're right, melta/flamer are much more common.

DoW

Spartacusbob wrote:
@ Dave47
What is the relation between taking pyskers with a unit of snipers? was there something i missed like a buff?

More of a debuff on the enemy. The psyker battle squad power reduces leadership for the whole turn. Makes snipers much more likely to pin their target. However you may as well use it to dump on a unit that you want to break. Unbreakable units are usually immune to pinning as well, so it doesn't make much odds.

Sniper to me are a waste of a space, because you are likely to face armies that just ignore pinning.I perfer to mechanize army, then you are forcing your enemey to pop you out of your vechicles. Use Medussa about three of them

1980 Points

Modified list after some play testing. This list may not work for everyone but after playing orks forever, its nice to sit back and make someone come to me.
I removed the grey knights to keep it simple, if someone gets close i will just throw a squad of guard at them and lock them up in CC or as soon as they mow through them and stop 1" away from me, light it up with 60 lasguns rapid fire This is also why i dropped the vets for 1 more PCS and 2 infantry squads. More bodies, more bullets, and more objective takers. Also 2 master of the ordinance just adds to the fun of it.

Shotguns didn't work out so well... however the flamers did their job

HQ CCS
Sniper Rifle x4
Master of Ordnance

HQ CCS
Sniper Rifle x4
Master of Ordnance

TROOP Platoon Command Squad
Sniper Rifle x4
Infantry Squad x5
Heavy Weapons Squad x5
Lascannon x3 all

TROOP Platoon Command Squad
Sniper Rifle x4
Infantry Squad x2

FA Armored Sentinel Squad (each in its own fast attack slot)
Lascannon all

HEAVY Leman Russ Battle Tank x3 (each in its own heavy slot)
Lascannon /no side sponsons

Er, first of all I am a massive enemy of sniper rifles, lascannon HWSs, armoured sentinels, unarmed infantry squads, and lascannons on LRBTs. But I will try to be constructive anyway:

If you like your CCSs like that, you may want to give them camo cloaks for added survivability. A unit that is less killy than the CCS, but more survivable and scoring, is 10 veterans, 3 sniper rifles, forward sentries, and the HW of your choice (120-135 pts). You may want to try these as well/instead.

It looks like you've not given your infantry squads any upgrades at all. I beg you to reconsider. Each squad can spend 15 points on an autocannon and a grenade launcher. That's the cost of one of your HWSs, and suddenly the vast bulk of your troops are actually useful! The thing about lasguns is that yes, they kill infantry in the right circumstances. But do you never fight people who use transports? Those infantry squads are completely useless if your opponent comes at you in any sort of vehicle.

Basically, you've concentrated all your infantry HWs, which are all lascannons, the most expensive option, into small, vulnerable units. Not good. Spread the points around squads, and take at least 2 inf. squads for every HWS.

As a general note, it's not efficient to take just lascannons and sniper rifles. Your army needs some flamers to deal with hordes of guys. It needs a few meltaguns to take out heavy armour (lascannons are surprisingly bad at this) and if you need to take out light vehicles or troops, autocannons would be a lot cheaper and at least as good.

I would also consider some voxes. Orders really help the infantry and your chances of using them successfully go way up with a re-roll. 5 points for each command unit, 5 points for each infantry blob can really go a long way.

constructive critics are always welcome

i need to playtest this new build to see the weakness first hand but I could see where switching out the snipers for a more specialized PCS/CCS would work better. Like a melta CCS or a flamer CCS. There are 4 of them and with enough troops i could see a small special weapons squad surviving.

as for all the lascannons, ive become quite attached to them, instant death plus no armor saves makes for great independent charchter killers. sure they have problems against armor 14, but against rhinos, trucks, falcons, and other transports they work. The most transports i ever face is maybe 5 and if 15 lascannons cant pop most of that in the first 2 turns i have to blame it on the dice.

as for the squads, i took out the vox and the melta guns because i never could get the value out of them, they never got close enough to use the melta and i always forget about orders. but since i run a gunline thats mainly static i see where throwing in autocannons could be really useful and fit my play style. range without movement.