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So the new space wolves dex came out and I don't know anything about them. I play with csm and I know that kittens scratch with their claws while men crush with fists.

If your not scared yet.... you will be

ok i can die happy as i always wanted to say that

Just be sure to check the rules occasionally. Us wolf players are getting some new toys, and we didn't all read the manuals. For example, I didn't know about the whole "only one shooting psychic power can be used, regardless of rules allowing more than one psychic power" thing. Previously, we had only one* rather innocuous spell (4+ cover save to a unit - whoopee!)

I would only be worried if your opponent won't let you verify the crazy stuff he seems to be doing. If it sounds unusual, check with the codex.





* - Unless you played the 13th company, then you had the ability to teleport, but we don't have them anymore.

I don't know if they're a scary list, but they're pretty undercosted for certain builds. They're definitely very solid, but, at the end of the day, they're basically just Codex Creeped SMs.

The basic Grey Hunter has BP+CCW+Bolter AND Counter-Attack, making him much superior to a normal Tactical Marine, for one point less. It's a bit obvious that Codex Creep is intentional.

Wolf Guard are also hugely undercosted for certain loadouts, MUCH cheaper than the equivalent SM Vet Sarge.

As has been said, remember their rules. I played them yesterday, and the other guy "cheated" a ton, insofar as he benefitted from both of us screwing up the rules in his favor over and over.

- You hit his Blood Claws on a 3+, and they need 4+ to hit with their shooting.
- Blood Claws, including the bikes, can't shoot from within assault range without a non-Blood Claw to babysit them.

Don't expect the results you're used to from assaulting them. Not only do they have BP+CCW, but they have Counter-Attack. They die just as fast as SMs, but they take about 3x as many MEqs with them.

I hit a squad of BCs with Assault Marines, and my guys just melted.

SW are assault oriented, so you might want to shoot 'em or cut 'em down with your crazy characters or daemonic allies.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:SW are assault oriented, so you might want to shoot 'em or cut 'em down with your crazy characters or daemonic allies.

Lets correct this .... SW are every thing that Chaos Space Marines dream to be but without the Defilers (mind you Bjorn does a good imitation).

Shooting SWs is def your best bet. There are certainly assault units that can beat them, but point for point, I don't think there's much that can mess with them. It doesn't help a bit to get the charge on them either.

My read on SWs thus far, is that they're a totally overpowered army that happens to have a weak spot against the sorts of mech, mobile armies that are popular/necessary these days, which leaves them in a position to be a strong, but not overpowered list.

Phryxis wrote:I don't know if they're a scary list, but they're pretty undercosted for certain builds. They're definitely very solid, but, at the end of the day, they're basically just Codex Creeped SMs.

The basic Grey Hunter has BP+CCW+Bolter AND Counter-Attack, making him much superior to a normal Tactical Marine, for one point less. It's a bit obvious that Codex Creep is intentional.

Codex Creep is fake. 5th edition Codices are better not because GW wants new armies to be better or whatever, but because new armies fit better within the framework of new editions. Necrons are crap because 5th edition screws them over, not because every other army has "crept up." Also, Tactical Marines are IMO better or at least comparable with Grey Hunters, albeit in different roles. The real strength of the Space Wolves army lies in the things that differentiate them from standard Marine lists.

Phryxis wrote:Wolf Guard are also hugely undercosted for certain loadouts, MUCH cheaper than the equivalent SM Vet Sarge.

The fact that they take an Elite slot in a normal army and don't fit into your squads as well as Sergeants do prevents these guys from being overpowered.

Tri wrote:Lets correct this .... SW are every thing that Chaos Space Marines dream to be but without the Defilers (mind you Bjorn does a good imitation).

And the Obliterators, and the Cult Marines, and the Dæmon Princes...

Wolf Lords and Thunderwolf Cavalry are pretty darn close to Daemon Princes in the close combat department.

Phryxis wrote:I don't know if they're a scary list, but they're pretty undercosted for certain builds. They're definitely very solid, but, at the end of the day, they're basically just Codex Creeped SMs.

The basic Grey Hunter has BP+CCW+Bolter AND Counter-Attack, making him much superior to a normal Tactical Marine, for one point less. It's a bit obvious that Codex Creep is intentional.

.

I don't really agree here. CSM are the same way (BP/CCW/Bolter @ 15 points). They don't get counter-attack but that's a pretty wolfy thing anyway. The reason you pay the extra point for a Tactical Marine is because you get the free heavy weapon and flamer if you take 10 of them. Now honestly, I do feel that Tactical Marines should get a close combat weapon as well (uh...knife?) but I guess GW figured that they were good enough for the points.

I don't think it's Codex Creep that you see between Codices, but rather Edition Creep you see between Editions. Back when I started playing Rogue Trader, a Tactical Squad was over double the points. 1,500 points was about half the models that it is now, and at the time, the models cost half the price in dollars. This isn't a GW conspiracy theory. It's marketing, and it makes sense for them. It also makes fun for the gamer. Every edition becomes more streamlined, and point values drop. GW has been pushing Mechanized units. Why do you think a Rhino costs 35 points? Who doesn't want 2 or 3 of them @ 1,500 points? And what does that cost in dollars? Low-priced transports are still expensive in terms of real world money, and by making them excellent in 5th edition, GW has basically secured the sales of expensive vehicle kits.

This isn't a GW conspiracy theory, just an observation of over 10 years of play.

I'm a tyranid player and i'm not scared of space wolves. I was one of the holy crap. I aint playing tyranids against them. But since i brought the dex and read alot of rules they seem much more meh. worse than Guard codex for sure.

Like i heard thunderwolf cav's all have power weapons, logan grimnar gives +1 attack within 18 inches every turn. All turned out to be kinda wrong, then finding out drop pods and thier heavy las raiders the one's i fear most as a Nidzilla player are down to 10 transport. So that old heavy gun raider with 5 termies and a special character just got put out the window.

However like many I love their fluff and making 2500 points lists where 750 points go on special chars and 750 points on land raiders would be sooooo fun to play

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

I don't really agree here. CSM are the same way (BP/CCW/Bolter @ 15 points). They don't get counter-attack but that's a pretty wolfy thing anyway. The reason you pay the extra point for a Tactical Marine is because you get the free heavy weapon and flamer if you take 10 of them.

Also combat squads, and combat tactics are invaluable game winners sometimes.

Yes. Tactical Squads also come with a Sergeant.