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As a tyranid I find myself with a biased opinion on the matter. My honest opinion is that with the nerf on rending, cc resolution based on damage infliced instead of on numbers and increased vehicle survivability (combined of course with actually hitting moving vehicles in cc), I believe that we are indeed in need of a new codex pretty sharpish. I know there are a couple of armies that can claim similar compensation...but really, who needs it more? I personally think that Necrons and Dark Eldar still have competitive builds regardless of how outdated the codex is. Grey Knights not so much, although in fairness they are meant to specialize against Daemons (which they still aren't too bad at).

Currently our best competitive build is Nidzilla. It's a tough prospect to defeat, though not too hard to force a draw in the hands of a capable opponent. Let's take a closer look at what is generally recognized as as our only competitive build.

Genestealers. Amust have for a nidzilla list. They strike fear into the heart of all non-nids. Or at least they used to. Fleet combined with high WS and I is a scary prospect to face in cc, though with their inability to rend on hits they lose a lot of their hitting power. They also die surprisingly easily to return attacks in all forms, and their high cost means they can't really go toe to toe with swarms that well.

The Carnifex. A beast capable of ripping apart tanks in cc, or equally capable of silencing them with a glancing hit. That is of course if they hit. CC is not an easy place to get to with this guy. He takes his time. Perhaps makes it into combat with 1 tank by the end of the game. Against a player with any knowledge of the hitting power of this MC he's probably hitting on 6's. It's all up to the dice gods at this point. Let's take a look at the shooty option. VC's are great for stunning tanks. If you expect anything else, prepare to be disappointed. Currently meching up is the "in thing", by which I mean smart. This puts a whole lot of pressure on the VC's and BS's since they can only target 1 vehicle at a time. 3 gunfexes vs up to 6 transports plus tanks. The odds are against this guy from the get go, even more so against AV 14.
How about the dakkafex I hear you scream. Once again this option also falls up short. He puts out a lot of shots at a respectable strength, though with only an 18" range and only 2 attacks, he has to get up clse and personal to deal his damage...not the best place to be. Since his gun is also AP-, he also suffers when attempting to deal with anything except the lightest of transports. I agree that against MEQ's he is a star, though getting them out of that transport is still a big issue.

The Tyrant. The biggest and baddest creature on the field. He is unlikely to unimpress regardless of weapon load out. He is as tough as a carnifex and able to deal with pretty much anything in close combat. The downside: He's just as slow as a fex. A flyrant is a nice option, though guess what the heavy weapons are going to be dealing with first? At a high points level this guy is just a point sink. There will be so much S8 AP1/2 on the table it's just not worth it. Tyrant guard can increase survivability, but they cost a hefty amount of points which really means you are likely only able to field 1 tyrant with guard at a time.

This is my rant. Take from it what you will and please discuss the alternatives to what I have suggested. I play casual games more than tournament, though I do like to build tough lists regardless of setting. So without any more ado...discuss.

I think Nids don't need a new codex.
The new codex will neither compensate for the down-grading of the rending rule,
nor for the glancing-only of Nids' shooting weapons.

I wish the next codex release was DH or Grey Knights, but Tyranids deserve it as much as any other army with a 3rd/4th edition codex.

If you ask me gaunts get killed too easily.
It would be good if they were more durable.

Tyranid Horde wrote:If you ask me gaunts get killed too easily.
It would be good if they were more durable.

lol WHAT?! They die just as easy as Ork boyz. And boyz are a serious threat when used right. Ive heard rumors that the Nids are going back to their horde roots. Seriously, I can see Nids going back to being one of those "oh crap Im playing against Tyranids" armies in 5th. I bet guants are going to be worth taking once more. You just need to take so many of them, that your opponent cant shoot enough of them. Thats how you do it in an Ork horde list.

Yeah, I hope in the next codex Gaunts drop like flies, but are so cheap that you can afford 90+ without denting your allottment for Things such as Genestealers.

I played a game against a guy who played Nids the other day. It was DoW, modified VP battle with a few other incentives thrown in. At 1000 points, I squeezed in a hellhound and a LRBT (I was playing guard). I completely managed to wipe out the nids, including the carnifex by turn 3.

What did they get of mine?

A CCS that I carelessly left where their lascannon could keep hitting the hive tyrant. My squad was out of the way and tactically unsound to attack. The only reason he did was because eliminating the HQ choice gave him more battle points, and he had lost most of his other squads by that point so he wanted to get anything he could out of the battle.

Him - 90 VP
Me - 1000 VP

Tyranids need a new codex.

Flagg07 wrote:I wish the next codex release was DH or Grey Knights, but Tyranids deserve it as much as any other army with a 3rd/4th edition codex.

As much as I would love this, something I've been thinking about lately is how with everything getting invul saves nowadays, the grey knights might actually be getting more powerful with their weapons that casually ignore them. Granted, I've mostly played Eldar with them, so I can't speak for their MEQ killing effectiveness.

Tyranids do deserve a new codex. It makes a lot of sense that they be next in line too.

1. The codex doesn’t need a complete overhaul, it needs a 5th ed face lift and some new fancy tricks. That means that the investment to write a new codex is less than that of a new Necron or Dark Eldar codex but more than that than for Chaos, Eldar, or Daemons. That means that GW can release a new codex relatively quickly and make a pretty significant positive impact on the game.

2. The Tyranids do not need an entirely new model line like the Dark Eldar do. The Nids need a couple new models and a couple new plastic kits and GW can call it a day on Tyranids for a long while. Almost all other model lines are in pretty decent shape.

These two issues create the “perfect storm” for why Tyranids SHOULD be next. After the Nid release GW can hopefully devote its attention to some bigger projects. If *I* were GW, I’d release the Tyranid codex to sate the 40k consumer for a while and turn a significant portion of my design staff to rewriting/resculpting Dark Eldar for late 2010. I’d take a small portion of my staff to work on a new Blood Angels codex and couple new Blood Angels models to release mid 2010. I’d THEN release an awesome new Blood Angels vs. Dark Eldar “carnage of all carnage” boxed set for Christmas 2010.

That’s what I’d do – but who knows. We could see a new Vanila Space Marine codex after Tyranids.

lol WHAT?! They die just as easy as Ork boyz. And boyz are a serious threat when used right.

Yeah...Boyz also have an extra attack, an extra toughness, an extra WS, and can get furious charge. They also get fast transports. Those bonuses come at the cost of 1 I, 1 BS, and 1 point per model. I'd say there's no comparison. That said, basic Gaunts are okay-ish as they stand. They don't compare with similarly costed troops like Boyz or Guardsmen, but they're not awful. At 4 points, they'd be fine. At 4 points with WoN (as rumored), they'd be great. No Retreat will still massacre them, but they'll still be very usable at that cost, not to mention TONS of fun to play with. Hormagaunts at 10 points is just criminal. Nuff said on that front.

I guess Tyranids deserve a codex, but I'm not really sure how you determine which armies deserve new rules and models. What is certain, though, is that Tyranids need a new codex. By my count, there are 7 units in the army that are even usable. Two of those (WoN Gaunts and Zoanthropes) are generally only around so you don't auto-lose when your Genestealers get wiped, and one of them, Tyrant Guard, can't be taken on their own. That means you're only actually depending on 4 units to do anything. Consequently, Tyranid armies wind up being virtually identical, and that just isn't cool. Even the seemingly ubiquitous mech Vet lists have more flexibility than a Nidzilla army.

Fortunately, the fixes are generally pretty easy. Points adjustments will fix most of the woes, and some minor rules changes will fix the rest. I'm definitely hoping for some cool new rules, though. That Trygon burrowing-->Deep Striking army deal sounds amazing.

Yes.
If only to cope with ubiquitous mech lists.

Adding variety is also a worthy goal.

This is not to say they are the only army that "deserves" a new/next codex, in any case.

Why do these threads always get hung up about who "deserves" a new codex? All the old armies "deserve" a new codex to catch up to 5th edition rules so we can have a level playing field. Sure, it won't last, because as soon as they've done that ( or even before) they'll have a new edition of the BRB ready and everything will be screwed up again, well, except for Space Marines.

It should be clear to all and sundry that the armies are not created equally and that unlike the wound allocation rules, one army can get two new codices (or even more!) before another army gets even one. I could go on about the higher level mathematics involved in setting the priorities for codex updates, but 1) not one you will understand it, 2) you can't it possibly influence it and 3) I'd have to kill you if I did tell you and you some how understood. However, I can tell you this. There are two rules to codex updates that form the basis of the impossibly complex equations used by the administratum scribes in Nottingham. The first is that Vanilla Marines are always first. The second is that Dark Eldar will always be last. If a new edition of the main rules comes out before the Dark Eldar are reached in the cycle, then the cycle starts over again with marines first and Dark Eldar last. Anything else in between is effectively random.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

Nids definitely needs a new codex, you can tell because of the pattern codex are being released. orks (did), SM (did not), Guard (did), more SM (did not).

Pythagoras theorized that A(squared) +B(squared) = C(squared)

Since Tyranids are A. coming after a marine codex and B. are not space marines themselves; math agrees.

Also apparently another SM (does not) codex is coming out after Nids.

Well, there will always be either a recent SM codex or a coming soon SM codex, as to keep the SM line prominently displayed on the shelves. Vanilla SM is also always going to be the first codex released each edition. That's just the way it works, they're the main characters of the 40k universe.

As for who actually "deserves" a new codex... Tyranids are easily top three -- Necrons and Daemonhunters are in the same boat (and I'd honestly put Tyranids in the middle of the three, with Necrons in most need), but none of the other lists (even Dark Eldar, although I should note I qualify "deserves a new codex" as "weakest or most broken by 5e", which 'Crons, 'Nids, and DH all outrank DE on)