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How do you beat fate crusher with guard. Against a good player I almost always lose even if they get the wrong wave and I pick off fateweaver with a psycannon and pbs. They come in outside of my inquisitors 14 inch average range. Killing that complex bloodcrusher unit is a huge pain and horrors with bolt usually take down a few of my vehicles so that grinders can kill my men off.

Might have to chalk this one up as one of those really hard to win match ups next to Khan outflanking bikers.

Bloodcrushers are slow. Throw guardsmen in their path, forcing them to either go around or spend a turn charging a 50-60 point squad. Use the space that gives you to get the rest of your forces away/in position to pound them on your turn. Or put chimeras in their way. Even with S6 on the charge, if you moved the chimera more than 6", there's a good chance it will survive. If it doesn't, they had to spend a turn charging, get no consolidate move, and then have a wreck/crater to go around/through (and possibly people inside as well).

Once Fateweaver is dead/gone, which shouldn't be too hard if you have psycannons, you can then turn your guns on the BCs.

Have 2-3 executioners or medusas
then take an inquisitor w/ 2 mystics and a psycannon.
take a PBS in chimera
take a large platoon combined to absorb the 1st charge.
Finally, have an officer of the fleet to slow down his deepstrikes and force him to come in piecemeal.

Force him to deploy far from your army with the inquisitor. First hit fateweaver down to Ld2 and then hit him with psycannon. After he is gone, toss medusa shots or executioner shots at the crushers until you destroy them with massed ap 2-3 fire. DO a FRFSRF order on a crusher unit and weight of shots will take a few more down. You want to create a wave effect with your guard to keep the bolts far from your vehicles.

Seeing your list would really help. Its hard to comment when I do not know what you are working with.

thehod has it.

Forcing the daemon player to have late arriving units come in on the second wave can actually help them. If the second wave comes in late they can land beside objectives and you will have a lesser number of turns to shoot them. If you are designing your list particularly to beat daemons then I would not the character that makes the second wave come in late.

G

use a PBS to make fate weaver leadership 2 and then force 1 wound. No more fateweaver.

Leman Russ Executioner. That'll solve your Bloodcrusher problems.

Make a Leman Russ squadron of 1 Leman Russ (no upgrades), and the Executioner with Plasma Cannon Sponsons. Allocate every hit to the naked Russ. 5 Plasma Cannons should do a number on anything he can field.

This is, of course, after you PBS and Psycannon Fateweaver to ensure that the 'Crushers get no re-roll on their failed saves.

OK, silly question time. Several people have mentioned the psycannon. Why? IIRC, FW has a 3+/3+ save, doesn't it? So FW still gets a 3+ rerollable save.

And yes, the PSB trick on FW is fun, fun, fun!!

Fateweaver doesn't have an armour save. The 3+ save in his statline is referring to his Invulnerable save.

Thus, no saves against Psycannons for Fateweaver.

Hmmmm, I'll have to doublecheck the codex, but I'm pretty sure he has both.

In general, in a Fatecrusher build K will take a cover save from the crushers (unless he's taking mystic shooting from an Inquisitor squad, but that's not likely), and he'll go to ground if they don't need him to move next round, so 3+ isn't uncommon. Despite that, there's usually enough shooting in the Guard to kill him by putting 27 wounds on him, or 9 and a PBS.

That said, the normal results are like this:

Drawfest & successful DA roll: Draw
Drawfest & unsuccessful DA roll: Guard win
multi objective & successful DA roll: Daemons win
multi objective & unsuccessful DA roll: Draw
KP & successful DA roll: Daemons win
KP & Unsuccessful DA roll: Daemons win

Dropped a PM to a buddy that plays Daemons, he confirms the Invul only. Hmmmmm, wonder where and how taht got into my head........... And may have to find the points to give my Inquisitor Lord a psycannon and a sage.

What are you using and what else does he use?

We know he uses Horrors, Crushers and Fateweaver but what else?

Thanks for the replies.

My list development thread for 1850 is here. Building an all comers list for 1850 and 1750 tournies. Latest list is going towards mech vet and is towards the bottom.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259301.page

if you don't feel like looking at the development of the list

77th Aesir Company
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
Total 97

Psyker Battle Squad
4 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
155

Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
185

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Melta gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

10 Veterans
3 Melta Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

Fast Attack
Vaklyrie Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Valkyrie Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1847

CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. Astropath just in case I get 2nd turn and want to outflank valkyries or put things in reserves. Officer of the Fleet for armies that use reserves like Daemons, Marine Drop pods, IG with Valks, SM Scouts in Storms. Khan Bikers.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5. Santuary cause I am tired of losing to daemons. I lose every time I play them. Unfortunately don't have enough points to put the Inquisitor in a Chimera although he can steal the PCS Chimera.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move.

Vets in Chimera with Melta and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use meltas if they get close.

2 Valkyrie Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said

Been testing against frgsinwntr and avariel both good daemons players who post on dakka and they typically run

Fateweaver
Bloodthirster

8 BloodCrushers with Icon, Fury, Musician (frgsinwnter)
or
2x 4-6 Bloodcrushers with icon, fury, musician cutting troops or a grinder (avariel)

Horrors with Changeling and Bolt
Horrors with Bolt
Plague Bearers icon
Plague Bearers icon

2-3 Grinders with the ap 3 template

First wave includes Fateweaver, the crushers and a grinder usually.

I was talking to Avariel about how to beat fate crusher with guard since she plays it and she was saying to add Plasma Vets because they are pretty good at putting wounds on Bloodcrushers but they overheat alot and die and aren't good in other match ups. I think I might cut 2 psykers down to 6 and put plasmas on one of the chimera melta squads. Maybe somehow squeeze in plasmas on the other unit too.


Gully Foyle
Playimg mech vet I don't have any 50-60 pts squads to sacrifice.
Punking Fateweaver isn't always that easy as he sometimes gets a cover save and then is a bit tougher to get rid of.


thehod
I do have an executioner, inquisitor w 2 mystics and psycannon and pbs in chimera. I had a blob but it didn't help much and got cut because of the reliance on cover that I might not have. Grinders did a pretty good job killing the blob when I did have it. Might be worth revisiting.

2-3 Executioners is points prohibitive at 1750-1850 and they aren't good in certain match ups. The small template is ineffective against Bloodcrushers because with their large bases and if they are spread out 2 inches you can only hit one with the small template and maybe 2 with the large template if you score a hit.

don mondo
Fateweaver only has a 3+ invulnerable so psycannons are effective against him if he does not have a cover save.

You the same don mondo from barter town if so did't I just buy an executioner turret off you on bartertown?

40kenthusiast
I'm getting pretty much the same results losing all the time. I lost even the draw fest mission as he contested my objective and had his.

I never said fatcrusher was easy to beat but I understand where your coming from. Drop the executioners and take 3 vendettas to deny cover or kill grinders.

with the chimeras you will have to move fast.

If you really want to stick it to deamons, take inquisitors with Landraiders as transports as most deamon armies have little or no luck vs landraiders. you will take a big hit on points but have something that fatecrusher cant handle.