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If I were to build a chimera with 2 heavy flamers would the templates fire from the edge of the vehicle or from the turret on the weapons? The 2nd way involves me hitting my own chimera and cuts down on range a bit, but I think that's how you fire from vehicles.

From the Weapons.

Page 58 and 59 BRB.

Of course RaW you cannot ever fire the turret mounted flamer if I remember its placement correctly, but that's another kettle to boil.

From the weapons.

RAW: The rules for template weapons are not written properly to work with vehicles or firepoints.

RAP: So people generally ignore the fact that you cover part of your own vehicle, if the shot is coming from the vehicle itself or its firepoint.

Gwar! has one RAW way of looking at it, while I have another RAW way of looking at the same issue:

No where in the rulebook does it state that a unit can hit itself when shooting a template weapon. However, in both the Templet Weapon rules and the Shooting with a Vehicle rules cover how to place a template that may be shoot from a vehicle (be it a vehicle mounted weapon or an attack from a fire point). Since 40k is a permissive rules set, we are given permission to use template weapons from vehicles and we are not given permission to hit our vehicles when doing so.

This means that you just follow the rules and ignore the vehicle's hull when placing the template.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:No where in the rulebook does it state that a unit can hit itself when shooting a template weapon.

In fact, it explicitly states they cannot.

Page 29

Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.

Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

So it says it touches the firing model, but can't touch a friendly model. Sounds like it isn't! lol

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

So it says it touches the firing model, but can't touch a friendly model. Sounds like it isn't! lol

Specific > General.

We are specifically told to touch the firing model.
We are then generally told not to touch friendly models.

Thus, the Template may touch the firing model, even though it is friendly.
Remember that models touched by the Template are not hit, only models under it.

Page 29

Any models fully or partially under the template are hit.

Yeah, but it still directs you to touch but not to touch. Sounds like a first date to me....lolz

Gwar! wrote:From the Weapons.

Page 58 and 59 BRB.

Of course RaW you cannot ever fire the turret mounted flamer if I remember its placement correctly, but that's another kettle to boil.

Uh why can't I fire the turret flamer?


OIC because the template isn't supposed to cover the tank.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

Gwar! wrote:From the Weapons.

Page 58 and 59 BRB.

Of course RaW you cannot ever fire the turret mounted flamer if I remember its placement correctly, but that's another kettle to boil.

Uh why can't I fire the turret flamer?

For the reasons we have just been hamfisting about

I'm so putting heavy flamers on my chimeras anyways.

When would you ever get to fire both though? If you move you cannot fire both, and your opponent would have to be stupid to get within Template range of the Chimera in his turn.

Good point. Maybe just one heavy flamer then. Heavy Flamer/Heavy Bolter/Heavy Stubber should be pretty effective against, well, everything.

I run ML/HB/HS on my line Chimeras and HF/ML/HS on my advancing Chimeras.

Gwar! wrote:Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

It is my position that a model is not friendly to itself and in general is immune to its own weapons.

No where in the rulebook does it advise that a model may be hit by its own attack. In addition, the only place in the rulebook it covers how to deal with templates and blasts cover a vehicle is under "Shooting at Vehicles" on Pg 60 of the BRB. As the there are no rules to support the first common assumption that a model may hit itself, while there is a specific rule that deals with being hit only by non-friendly attacks, it is my interpretation of the rules as written that a template fired from a vehicle does not effect the vehicle. Until GW errata’s or FAQ's a specific way of dealing with this issue, I will continue to support the use of models as they are written to function.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

It is my position that a model is not friendly to itself and in general is immune to its own weapons.

So if I fire my Vindicators Demolisher Cannon at the unit 6" away from me, I roll a 11 and Scatter back onto the Vindicator, I do not take a S10 Ordnance hit?

What about if my Lone Long Fang fires a Plasma Cannon at a unit 2" away and I roll a 6 and scatter back onto the lone Long Fang, does the Long Fang not take a S7 AP2 hit?

If so, this is fantastic news! Please, though, I feel as though I am missing something, as I have scoured no less than 2 AoBR Rulebooks, a Large hardback Rulebook AND the Collectors Edition Rulebook, along with every single codex released since 3rd edition, and all the relevant Errata and FAQs, yet cannot find any mention of this rule that a model is immune to its own weapons. A Page number would be most appreciated. This discovery must not go unknown!

jeffersonian000 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

It is my position that a model is not friendly to itself and in general is immune to its own weapons.

Yay, Daemon weapons and plasma guns are now perfectly safe!

Yay weapons dont hurt their owners.

Gwar! wrote:Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

He has an emo army. Lol.

Good ol GWAR, always pissing in peoples faces
If I hit the lotto, Im going to hire proof readers so he can never EVER throw my words at me thats for sure

Yea.
Quoting words that poeple are paid to be distributed is a problem for the distributors?

Maybe it is just the spite from people who cannot read?

I must be missing something.

Gwar! wrote:So if I fire my Vindicators Demolisher Cannon at the unit 6" away from me, I roll a 11 and Scatter back onto the Vindicator, I do not take a S10 Ordnance hit?

What about if my Lone Long Fang fires a Plasma Cannon at a unit 2" away and I roll a 6 and scatter back onto the lone Long Fang, does the Long Fang not take a S7 AP2 hit?

If so, this is fantastic news! Please, though, I feel as though I am missing something, as I have scoured no less than 2 AoBR Rulebooks, a Large hardback Rulebook AND the Collectors Edition Rulebook, along with every single codex released since 3rd edition, and all the relevant Errata and FAQs, yet cannot find any mention of this rule that a model is immune to its own weapons. A Page number would be most appreciated. This discovery must not go unknown!

Blast weapons have a specific rule that allows them to hit friendly units where a template weapon (i.e., flamer) has a specific rule against it, while Plasma weapons have a specific rule that allows them to wound the firer. Reading comprehension goes a long way.

SJ

Page 29..... it says that a flame template is fired from the base of the model..... it says nothing about coming from the barrel of the gun. You check line of sight from the barrel.

A turret Flamer would mean that you place the Template ANYWHERE in contact from the vehicle.......so it is written RAW!!!!!

one could even argue that you MEASURE the range from the barrel, but you do not measure for a template, you only place it in contact with the shooters base.

Everything I see says that you gauge LOS from the gun, but you measure from the model........(page 17)


Yet another silly stance on an otherwise simple and obvious rule......way to go Gwar.

vehicles have no base, so one might assume that it comes from the barrel as the "from the base" argument has nothing to go on.

Why can't you fire a flamer from the turret? The rules for firing a template weapon specifically say that the template must be touching the firing model.

The argument here is that a firing infantry model is exempt from this rule, because specific overrides general. Does this somehow not apply to a vehicle, just because it is a vehicle? What about bikers, or cavalry, or MCs? Shouldn't they be prohibited from templates touching themselves when they fire them as well?

build a larger turret =3

kitsunez wrote:build a larger turret =3

mine come with 24" long barrels. Flamer never touch my vehicles ^_^

You measure from the weapon mount, not the barrel. Read my above post to see why you can place the template over your own tank anyway.

Gwar! wrote:

jeffersonian000 wrote:No where in the rulebook does it state that a unit can hit itself when shooting a template weapon.

In fact, it explicitly states they cannot.

Page 29

Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.

Unless you are also arguing that a model is not friendly towards itself?

Maybe the units are emo?

The obvious answer to all of this is that none of the models are "friendly". If they were "friendly", they wouldn't be shooting at each other, they'd be down at the pub drinking.