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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Game style: Competitive

Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Spearhead




[Army lists]

My list:

Land Raider (standard) containing Vulkan, a librarian, and 5 Assault Terminators (4 TH/SS, 1 LC)

2 x Rhino containing tooled out tac squads (PF, Combi-melta, melta gun, ML)

2 x 2 Land Speeder squadrons (MM/HF)

His list:

Land Raider (standard) containing Corbulo and several Death Company

Death Company Dread

Lamertes and 10 Assault Marines

5 Assault Marines

10 Tactical Marines (Lascannon, meltagun)

Drop Pod containing Veterans (hit squad w/ 2x melta guns, 3 x combi-plasmas)



Deployment:

Our objectives were placed in our respective deployment zones, with his deployed inside a ruin, and mine as far into the corner opposite his deployment zone as I could get it. I won the roll off and decided that he would deploy first and get first turn. He deployed basically in a big mass, with a combat squad of Tac Marines sitting on his objective in the ruins, and using his Land Raider and Rhino for cover. I deployed one Rhino on my objective, blocking it off, and the Land Raider a few inches from that (to deny him the ability to stomp my objective). Forward of this, I deployed my 2 speeder squadrons (behind a building to block LOS) and one Tactical squad (ie: speedbump).

First Turn:

Uneventful. Since BA don't get Drop Pod Assault, nothing happened. I decided to sit tight and send one squadron of speeders flanking hard along the long table edge, using cover to keep them concealed from his limited ranged elements. He moved everything forward. The only thing significant that happened here is that his Rhino (with a combat squad of Tac marines) was destroyed by the Land Raider, removing the mobile cover from the Assault Marines.

Second Turn:

His drop pod hit squad lands close enough to my Land Raider to be within 2d6 melta range. His hit squad pops out and fires at the Raider failing to do any damage. His 5-man Assault Squad assaults my Rhino but, since I'd moved it 7" the turn before, the Power Fist strikes fail to do any damage. This ended his turn. The far speeder squadron continues flanking along with the second speeder squadron. The speeders hammer his LR with multimeltas and immobilize it. The combat squad that was in the now-wrecked Rhino piles into the ruins directly in front of where the speeders were. The forward Tactical Squad disembarks from their Rhino (which pops smoke) and fires at / assaults the 5-man assault squad, wiping them out. Vulkan and the Librarian disembark from the Land Raider and pop off Avenger and a HF shot at his drop-pod hit squad. The AP3 Avenger template wipes out the majority of the squad and the rest are killed in the assault.

Third Turn: Lamertes and his unit are getting dangerously close to my objective, and Corbulo has disembarked from the immobilized Land Raider with his buddies from Death Company. The Death Company dread, now out of range of Corbulo, runs full speed ahead toward my Speeders. Everything else in his army simply advances toward my objective, ready to finish preparing for the assault on my objective. The Land Raider succeeds in blowing one of my Land Speeders out of the air. My opponent is nearly done consolidating for a fourth turn assault. The Tactical Squad fires a melta gun shot at the Rhino which is negated by its cover save (smoke). On my turn, Vulkan and the Librarian get back in the Land Raider. Need to do something about this wave of Red Nutcases surging forward. The Speeders see a lucrative target in the Death Company dread and hop out of cover to engage it. The Death Company dread explodes from fire from the 3 multi-meltas. The forward Tactical Squad hops back in their Rhino and coasts slowly toward the enemy objective while the Marines inside fire out at the tac squad in the ruin.

Fourth Turn: My opponent is finally done dealing with the difficult terrain in the center of the board and finishes consolidating next turn for the assault. Everyone moves behind a section of forest, the last piece of cover between him and my objective. Finally, another two Speeders receive a can't move / can't shoot result which is dropped to can't shoot as per squadron rules. The Speeders continue toward his objective to flame the occupants and eventually contest it. Here's where the massacre begins. My forward Rhino with the tactical squad "tank shocks" Lamertes squad of Assault Marines. I wasn't hoping to break them, only to condense them for what was about to come. The Land Raider trundles forward and unloads Vulkan, the Librarian, and the 5 Assault Terminators. When the smoke of Vulkan's HF and the Librarian's AP3 Avenger template clears, my opponent has lost 9 Assault Marines in Lamertes' squad and a Death Company trooper. The combination of the AP3 flamer template, and the Rhino forcing them to consolidate, resulted in 10 of 11 models receiving AP3 hits and an equal number receiving S5 HF hits. Vulkan and his crew charge the Assault Marines and finish them off before the Terminators even have a chance to strike. The Speeders kill two Tactical Marines on his objective reducing their number to 3.

Fifth turn: Down to 8 Tactical Marines, an immobilized Land Raider, Corbulo, and his Death Company, my opponent decides that he might as well go full out and charge Vulkan's posse. A lascannon shot from the Tactical squad shakes another Speeder, and his Tac squad in the ruin immobilizes the forward Rhino. In combat, the Librarian takes a wound and Vulkan falls to the Death Company's furious charge, but in the ensuing melee Corbulo and the Death Company are slaughtered to a man, and my opponent concedes.



All in all, a good learning experience. I had never used my expensive Vulkan + Librarian + Assault Terminator unit as a counter-assault unit, but when dealing with a bunch of fast-moving, I-boosted assault-heavy units, it's really necessary. Also, the Librarian may be fragile, but the flamer template that he can put out really does it for me.

The Speeders are quite possibly the most versatile thing going, especially for competetive games. This loadout (HF/MM) is here to stay. And in Tourneys where you're running the same list from game to game, it's indispensible. MM for armor, HF for hoarde, twin linked by Vulkan for fun.

By including 2 characters (1 cheap Librarian and 1 SC) in my Term assault squad, I save my slow hitting Terminators from getting overwhelmed by tempting my opponent into going after my HQ elements. The Librarian is woefully easy to kill, but after he's popped off his Avenger shot he's blown his load anyway, and I'd rather be taking 3++ saves on Vulkan with 3 wounds than on TH/SS Terminators that strike at I1, and die with one failed save. Every attack that goes into a character is one less going into the squad. And if you assault, be careful about putting your expensive characters in base to base with PFs or enemy SCs in general.

Finally, don't be afraid to be creative with tank shock. If you want to drop a template on someone, it's best to consolidate their unit via tank shock especially if they're spread very thin (full 2" coherency). It's also best if they're wearing power armor and your template is S5 AP3, but...


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/26 05:47:51


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

Didn't like the BA list.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Green Blow Fly wrote:Didn't like the BA list.

G


I don't either. The Death Company Dread doesn't get to combat. His only serious antitank unit is 5 dudes in a drop pod and way too expensive for a suicide unit.

Got any suggestions for him?

Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in ca
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman





His tac squad does have lascannon and melta though.

2500pts  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Einherjar wrote:His tac squad does have lascannon and melta though.


Yes, but since the lascannon is static, you will usually get a coversave against it, and the meltagun's real threat range is 6" for most things. The entirety of the ranged anti-tank capability of that list consists of 2 twin linked lascannons, 1 regular lascannon, and 3 meltaguns. Not enough, IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/26 22:41:37


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

Einherjar wrote:His tac squad does have lascannon and melta though.


Though???


ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Vancouver, BC

If the BA player wants to be truly competitive, he has to mech up. Jump packs just don't cut it anymore. Rhinos = WIN

If he wants to take a land raider, it should be a LRC. I would just skip it altogether unless he's willing to get a VAS, because a few Death Company will get ripped apart by any dedicated CC squad. DC should be given a rhino and left at that.

As you pointed out, he needs some anti-vehicle weaponry. A few MM attack bikes or speeders would be great for that, though he'd probably need to get rid of his DC dreadnought.

http://gamers-gone-wild.blogspot.com/

riman1212 wrote:i am 1-0-1 in a doubles tourny and the loss was beacause the 2 people we where vsing where IG who both took 50 conscipts yarak in one a comistare in the other


lukie117 wrote:necrons are so cheesy it should be easy but space marines are cheesy too so use lots of warriors with a chessy res orb
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:If the BA player wants to be truly competitive, he has to mech up. Jump packs just don't cut it anymore. Rhinos = WIN

If he wants to take a land raider, it should be a LRC. I would just skip it altogether unless he's willing to get a VAS, because a few Death Company will get ripped apart by any dedicated CC squad. DC should be given a rhino and left at that.

As you pointed out, he needs some anti-vehicle weaponry. A few MM attack bikes or speeders would be great for that, though he'd probably need to get rid of his DC dreadnought.


I think his master plan consists of a pile-on. Basically, he thinks he's going to get his 5-man assault squad into combat with something like a dev squad, and then pile Lamertes' squad along with Corbulo and the Death Company onto another unit.

The problem is, when they aren't in transports, they're very susceptible to any kind of AP3 template or fire. But Lamertes, Corbulo, several Death Company, and 10 Assault Marines all getting Furious Charge and rerolling their attacks is nasty. Then again, what works on paper doesn't necessarily work in-game.

He should have known that he had a snowball's chance in hell of getting me to allow that to happen.



I agree with you on the mech thing. I think he's sold on the jump pack troopers because he thinks he can hide them behind his vehicles until he's ready to assault. Problem with that is that A) he ends up clumping, or B) if a vehicle gets immobilized or otherwise can't move, then he's SOL.


I also agree that he should swap his expensive drop pod veterans for a couple multimeltas on fast platforms. Though I do remember him telling me that his options are more limited in the BA codex.


As for the LRC, if he were going to run that, I'd like to see him run 8 Assault Terminators in there. 5 LC, 3 TH/SS, to really take advantage of Corbulo's Furious Charge. I think that 5 Terminators striking at S5 I5 and rerolling wounds would put a hurting on pretty much anything. The TH/SS Termies are there to take hits if need be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/27 01:21:26


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Vancouver, BC

NuggzTheNinja wrote:I think his master plan consists of a pile-on. Basically, he thinks he's going to get his 5-man assault squad into combat with something like a dev squad, and then pile Lamertes' squad along with Corbulo and the Death Company onto another unit.

The problem is, when they aren't in transports, they're very susceptible to any kind of AP3 template or fire. But Lamertes, Corbulo, several Death Company, and 10 Assault Marines all getting Furious Charge and rerolling their attacks is nasty. Then again, what works on paper doesn't necessarily work in-game.

He should have known that he had a snowball's chance in hell of getting me to allow that to happen.

QFT. Any decent opponent would see this coming from a mile away and shut it down very easily.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:I agree with you on the mech thing. I think he's sold on the jump pack troopers because he thinks he can hide them behind his vehicles until he's ready to assault. Problem with that is that A) he ends up clumping, or B) if a vehicle gets immobilized or otherwise can't move, then he's SOL.

lol. What vehicles? His dreadnought, land raider, and drop pod?

NuggzTheNinja wrote:I also agree that he should swap his expensive drop pod veterans for a couple multimeltas on fast platforms. Though I do remember him telling me that his options are more limited in the BA codex.

IIRC, Blood Angels attack bikes with multi-meltas are 50 points, and MM/HF speeders are 75 points. I might be wrong though.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:As for the LRC, if he were going to run that, I'd like to see him run 8 Assault Terminators in there. 5 LC, 3 TH/SS, to really take advantage of Corbulo's Furious Charge. I think that 5 Terminators striking at S5 I5 and rerolling wounds would put a hurting on pretty much anything. The TH/SS Termies are there to take hits if need be.

Agreed. Pair that with Dante and he has an excellent spearhead unit.

http://gamers-gone-wild.blogspot.com/

riman1212 wrote:i am 1-0-1 in a doubles tourny and the loss was beacause the 2 people we where vsing where IG who both took 50 conscipts yarak in one a comistare in the other


lukie117 wrote:necrons are so cheesy it should be easy but space marines are cheesy too so use lots of warriors with a chessy res orb
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

There is one competitive build for BA -> Dante & Corbulo. You must play the army as a clump to take advantage of their abilities. The BA army featured in this batrep does not look like a good BA army. He could have played Dark Angels the exact same way. It's almost a sacrilege to the PDF codex.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Green Blow Fly wrote:There is one competitive build for BA -> Dante & Corbulo. You must play the army as a clump to take advantage of their abilities. The BA army featured in this batrep does not look like a good BA army. He could have played Dark Angels the exact same way. It's almost a sacrilege to the PDF codex.

G


FWIW he used to run this combo.

IMO Dante isn't all he's cracked up to be. Sure, the BA's hit a little bit easier, but in 5th edition, you're basically hitting on a 4+ until the enemy is over double your WS, so WS3 and WS4 doesn't really matter that much. I'm striking with TH/SS anyway so I don't really care if I'm I4 or I3, I'm still I1 and I'm still hitting on 4's.

Corbulo is fantastic. I'd like to see, at 1,500 points, 2 Land Raiders, one with Corbulo and Death Company, and the other with Assault Terminators, mostly LC.

IMO, Assault Marines in Rhinos would be fine troops options in this case. IIRC BA Rhinos can upgrade their movement?

Lastly, if he really wants to run the Death Company dread, fine. But put THAT in the drop pod and drop it onto an objective or something. It's got a melta-gun IIRC, so it's not absolutely worthless coming out of that pod. Park it on an objective, or if it comes in late, get it into melee. It's not that it's a bad choice overall, it's just a pain to get into melee because you don't want to wait 3 turns for that thing to lumber over.



The one case where I'd take Dante is against a Kan-heavy Ork list. Reducing those things to WS1 WILL do something.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/10/27 03:24:08


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

Its obvious you don't understand or value what Dante brings to the table. Corbulo is a support character while Dante is a beast plus boosts units around him.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Green Blow Fly wrote:Its obvious you don't understand or value what Dante brings to the table. Corbulo is a support character while Dante is a beast plus boosts units around him.

G


I know exactly what Dante brings to the table, and it's simply not that significant, especially against MEQs. IF you get the charge, then you're putting a lot of wounds on target. But he doesn't have Eternal Warrior, the "Preferred Enemy" rule goes away as soon as he dies, and he's just not that hard to kill. He's one powerfist away from being a pancake.

My real beef with Dante is that you can't put him in a transport. So you either have to jump pack everybody, or leave just him and his bodyguard outside of a transport. In this case, they're very susceptible to getting jumped early. And again, that's a lot of ground to cross without a metal box around you. No good player is going to sit there and let you get a turn 2 charge on them.

Different strokes for different folks I guess but I personally would only take him in very specific circumstances.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/10/27 13:07:19


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

I beat an army that had thirty fleeting assault terminators using Dante and Corbulo. The enemy did not even get to hit back. You dont know what you are talking about obviously. Dont get all hung up on Eternal Warrior... there are a lot of SM characters that do just fine without it. And you put Dante behind a wall of armor or hold him in reserve.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Green Blow Fly wrote:I beat an army that had thirty fleeting assault terminators using Dante and Corbulo. The enemy did not even get to hit back. You dont know what you are talking about obviously. Dont get all hung up on Eternal Warrior... there are a lot of SM characters that do just fine without it. And you put Dante behind a wall of armor or hold him in reserve.

G




I told you that I personally don't like him. If Dante makes you hot and heavy, then use Dante. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa.

But I obviously don't know what I'm talking about.

Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





I agree with GBF here. An army is best when it brings its unique strengths to bear, and Dante is one of the best strengths that the Blood Angels have.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Vancouver, BC

Fetterkey wrote:I agree with GBF here. An army is best when it brings its unique strengths to bear, and Dante is one of the best strengths that the Blood Angels have.

Indeed. If you're not going to take advantage of what the blood angels offer, you might as well just play codex marines.

http://gamers-gone-wild.blogspot.com/

riman1212 wrote:i am 1-0-1 in a doubles tourny and the loss was beacause the 2 people we where vsing where IG who both took 50 conscipts yarak in one a comistare in the other


lukie117 wrote:necrons are so cheesy it should be easy but space marines are cheesy too so use lots of warriors with a chessy res orb
 
   
 
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