Starting IG what to get?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**dreyco**

Well I'm attempting to start and IG army and instead of buying everything that looks cool, I'd rather focus on what I need to get up to points. I'm looking at trying to get to 1500ish.
-I love Valks, I'd like to have 3
-I love infantry (I like the idea of a vox network)
-Basilisks are cool models (I don't know if they are good though)
-Storm Troopers, again cool models but I don't know, also they may have a new kit soon so I might wait.

-I do not like Leman Russ's so I'd like to keep those out of an army option

Where to start?

**Mr. Burning**

Hi,

Valks are an excellent choice, combining fast transport and some fairly nasty offensive punch in the process - use rocket pods. or vendettas with lascannons.
personally I have always sided with veterans over storm troopers, yes the models do look cool, but under the new IG codex they come in overpriced, and anything storm troopers can do veterans can do it better from tank popping to squad hunting. Being a troops choice they can claim objectives as well.

I like Basilisks and medusas are woth looking at as well.

It all depends how you want to play your Guard, kit them out to you playing taste

**ph34r**

Basilisks are not super good, but the other chimera chassis artillery pieces are pretty good. It looks like you would want to go for a company command, 2 platoon commands, 6 or so infantry squads, 3 or so artillery, and 3 valkyries with veterans or possibly storm troopers to go in them.

**CadianXV**

It all depends on your playing style; are you a tourney gamer, a themed force guy, or someone who just wants cool models?

Tourney list: I am not the right person to help you with deciding how to do this, but there are a lot (and I mean a lot) of threads with different IG armies on them, and people's comments.

Themed list: This is what I use- themed forces are fun, but can be harder to play with. I run 3 Valks to transport my 3 Stormtrooper squads, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. With a themed force decide on what you want from it; many real-world armed forces are "Combined arms", meaning its perfectly viable to include Basilisks and Valks. You could say that it was a heavy artillery column supported by infantry mounted in Chimeras and Imperial Navy attachments for instance. Or you could go down the all infantry route, etc. There are hundreds of builds out there- go discover them!

Cool models: this is simple, if you like the look of a model, then go for it! You'll have fun building it and running it, even if it doesn't always perform as well as you'd like.

Now as for your choices, infantry is ESSENTIAL. The choice between veteran and platoons isn't an easy one, but if you want lots of infantry and a vox-network, I'd recommend platoons. They are highly customisible and you have the benefit of the Orders system. Valks are great models and pretty good on the table- 3 however in a non-themed force is slight overkill, but if you want it then go for it! Finally, Basilisks have been overshadowed somewhat by other artillery pieces, but they nonetheless are a good investment for their points cost if used correctly. Have them target large units of poorly armoured opponents for the best results.

I'd personally recommend Stormtroopers from my experience- despite not being as good as they used to be, 3/5 times they get their points back for me.

Well hope that helps, and welcome to Dakka dreyco!

**dreyco**

Thanks for the input. Like I said I'm new to IG so how I want to play is still up in the air. I play Mech Eldar so I was thinking for IG I'd want a gunline with 3 valks to go out and cap objectives/ put direct pressure on the on coming baddies. And in the valks would be maybe special weapons teams or veterans, one melta team, one flamer team, one plasma or something like that. I want zero melee in my guard, as I've found that with S3, T3 with no power weapons is just silly against anything MEQ. Otherwise I was thinking maybe my command squads could roll up in Chimeras giving orders and plasma shooting everything?

Again, advice is needed.

Thanks.

**scifi112233**

For a gunline id recommend some tanks as pillbox units.. maybe demolisher cannons so once the enmey get close you pop a few pie plates on them

**Brother Gideon**

I prefer to overlook the artillery, and instead use 9 demolishers with no sponsons. (i play 3000 point matches though) They are very hard to kill in such large numbers and can advance while shooting.

I see you dislike Russ' though, and that makes my advice useless as i base my armies around them.

Valkyries are also a solid choice, i have had a lot of success with them.

**Try Again Bragg**

If you dislike the big russ, your best options are going to revolve around chimera vets and valk support. Valkryies are cool models, but the cost is not something to be sneered at. As for storm troopers I run them as my anti "Holy crap thats big, shoot it shoot it shoot it" unit. They drop in mess with the enemy and then die, but they are fun.

Artillery is a very strange and fluid thing depending upon what your facing, whats the board and whats on the board, the mission types they are subject to the single most changing situation in game, and as such I steer away from it, but it looks damn cool.

Bragg out

**dreyco**

Good points guys, as for valks being expensive I guess I'm just used to 120+ point transports for eldar... hehe. I wouldn't be opposed to some chimeras either.

**Brother Gideon**

My only problem with valks is the cost. Money wise.

**Havoc13**

I use a theme army.
CC squad
2 platoons with 2 special weapon teams each
3 vet squads
6 Sentinels armored
All are mounted in Chimera's were appropriate

All special weapons are plasma guns, Sentinels have plasma cannons...

I like killing my own troops :-)
Still trying to figure out how to add some commisars as well.

**CadianXV**

Ok, I've written you a quick list including everything you want, bar the Stormies.

Bear in mind that I made this in 10 minutes, and have no idea how well it'll play. The platoons are also based around the Battalion box set to try and save you some cost (don't know if this is a major issue), hence the inclusion of the Sentinels.

============

HQ

CCS: Commander (power sword, bolt pistol), Regimental Standard, Vox, 2 plasma gunners, 2 bodyguards, Astropath, Master of Ordnance, Fleet Officer
232

Chimera
55

Troops

1st Platoon
PCS: Platoon Standard, Vox, Plasma gunner
65

Squad: Vox, Grenade Launcher
60
Squad: Vox, Grenade Launcher
60

Heavy Weapons: 3 Lascannons
105

Special weapons Squad: 3x demo charges
95

2nd Platoon

As 1st Platoon

Fast Attack

Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon, Hunter-killer missile
85
Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon, Hunter-killer missile
85

Valkerie: Rocket pods, Heavy bolters
140
Valkerie: Rocket pods, Heavy bolters
140
(For the Special Weapons)

Heavy Support

Basilisk
125

============

This list comes out at 1,500 points, and gives you a solid base to work on.

Hope that helps!

**LunaHound**

Woot you love Basilisk!
I dont like playing against Basilisk >:3

But they are a great addition to IG yes , against opponents that moves fast and love to hide from LOS , its a perfect solution.

I play Eldar full mech army , and Basilisk were the only thing that was able to hit me.

**grankobot**

Here is a suggestion I made in another thread for somebody looking to start guard inexpensively:

Guard aren't a good army to build inexpensively. If you're stuck on them though, I suggest a foot army.

What your army list will look like, roughly:

Company Command + Creed + Camo Cloaks + Vox - 165

2 Priests with Eviscerators - 120

Infantry platoon
Platoon Command Squad - 30
Infantry Squad, Commissar + PW, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 120
Infantry Squad, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 75
Infantry Squad, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 75

Infantry platoon
Platoon Command Squad - 30
Infantry Squad, Lascannon - 75
Infantry Squad, Lascannon - 75
Heavy Weapons Team, Lascannons - 105
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannons - 75
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannons - 75

That's about 950 points I think. You'll likely have a sentinel or 2 lying around so you can fill the gap with one of those but don't expect it to do much. If you do use the sentinel, the scout variety are better.

The first infantry platoon is a CC unit. You group the 3 squads together to form a 30 man strong eviscerator, PW, melta-toting, LD9 (and stubborn, with a reroll) blob of death. You can charge just about anything with this and take it down eventually (key word..). Dreads, hordes, terminators, anything. Straken can easily be substituted for Creed but your shooty element will suffer for it.

The second platoon uses the infantry squads to screen the heavy weapon teams and give them cover saves in their deployment. Don't forget to give your weapon teams spaces between the screening dudes to shoot though so that your opponents don't get cover as well. It's important that the infantry squads have anti-tank weapons rather than dual purpose guns like autocannons and missile launchers, because their voxes mean you'll be able to give them orders more reliably.

Your company command squad just hides. All they're good for is issuing orders so don't get them killed.

So to field this you'll need:

CREEEEED!
NOT Kell! He's expensive and he sucks! If you can get Creed without him, do it. You'll never use him in a good list.
1 Commissar
2 Priests (no official model, but you can just give some fantasy guy a chainsword and call it done)
11 heavy weapons bases
3 command squads - since they've got nothing cool in them, you can use basic infantry models for these.
5 infantry squads

That's 65 infantry models + the other stuff. Here's the cheapest way to buy all that:

2 Battleforces - $190
Creed - $15-20 (not sure, GW website is down)
Commissar - $15
2 Heavy Weapons Team boxes - $70
3 Snap together Cadian boxes - $24

That's about 300 bucks for 1000 points, which is not bad at all. Buy from an online retailer and you can get up to 20% off (I recommend the war store) so you're looking at more like $250 all together + you'll have a left over heavy weapons squad and a couple sentinels. You can swap some of the HWTs out for a Leman Russ if you like, and it'll work out to be cheaper, but your army will be less effective and with this build and you'll end up with a cheap, poorly organized force instead of a cheap effective one. Buy tanks later, start out with this army.

Oh yeah, and if you like Ogryns then more power to you, but be aware that they're EXPENSIVE AS HELL and overall a crappy unit. Same goes for Rough Riders. Storm Troopers you can make work but I personally think they're overcosted for what they do.

You could easily follow the same idea to start your army. If you intend for the bulk of your army to be mounted, though, don't run Creed.

I wouldn't run Basilisks. At a glance they may look worthwhile - but are they really? Let's take a closer look.

For 125 points you get:

S9 AP3 36-240" Ordnance Barrage
Armor 12, 10, 10, open topped

That's not really that great. The big strength 9 cover ignoring template will only scare players until they learn how easy it is to stay in your minimum range and force you to direct fire. Suddenly your Basilisk is looking like a gimped Leman Russ, isn't it? Speaking of which...

If you give a Basilisk the closed top upgrade it costs 140 points, which is as much as a basic battle cannon-toting LR costs. But the LRBT can move and fire its main gun, has armor 14, and can be equipped to be even more dangerous. Not that I'm advocating the use of basic LRBTs either because they're bad for their own reason, but my point is why take the bottom rung when you could get not-quite-as-bad for the same points? Or you could just avoid this whole mess entirely and field one of the three good LR varients - Demolishers are a better general purpose tank. Executioners are better at killing marines. Eradicators are better at killing everything else. Don't be lured in by the AP3! It's not good!

Anyway, as shown above artillery is squishy. You can't really get around that. So when you're considering your big guns of choice, ask yourself this - "is this gun REALLY big enough to justify being open topped and armor 12?" In the case of the Basilisk, it's not worth taking because its gun isn't big enough. Same reason why you don't see armies with Griffon mortars or whatever. They're just not shooty enough to make up for being so squishy, and that makes for a bad unit.

With that in mind, I'd go with Manticores or Medusa (I think those are the S10 36" ones) batteries. Manticores are a great unit to have if you're building towards a Valkyrie alpha strike army and easily converted from a Chimera chassis and a Whirlwind turret (which you can buy here) so you wouldn't have to pony up for some crazy expensive FW stuff either.

**JohnHwangDD**

dreyco wrote:-I love Valks, I'd like to have 3
-I love infantry (I like the idea of a vox network)
-Basilisks are cool models (I don't know if they are good though)
-Storm Troopers, again cool models but I don't know, also they may have a new kit soon so I might wait.

1. Buy 3 Valks, as you like those. That's about 400 pts right there.
2. Don't worry, you'll need Infantry - this is GUARD!

3. Basilisks are great in Apoc, but not as good as basic Russes for regular 40k artillery. But as you don't like Russes, go ahead and take Basilisk. That's anther 100+ pts for a total of 500-550 pts spent
4. IG Storms suck, do not bother with them. Consider a unit of Veterans with Carapace instead.

You have 900+ pts to go, so think about what *else* you like.

In the mean time, get that first Platoon, trio of Valks, and Basilisk to keep you busy.

**dreyco**

Again great input. I just counted up aproximately how many guardsmen are in the above lists ~70, man I need to have a pizza party to get them primed and basecoated with friends and then some audio books for me to do the fine detail!

**Spooner6**

But the LRBT can move and fire its main gun, has armor 14, and can be equipped to be even more dangerous.

I am a noob to 5th ed IG. Can battle cannon's move and fire? I thought ordonance weapons couldn't move and fire. I am picking up my IG codex tomorrow and have some Russ's being built. If this is true it might change the payload I opt for.

Thanks
Chris

**grankobot**

You don't have to run heavy infantry, but if you want to have a mass-o-troops down the line it's definitely the way to start a cheap army that's actually solid on the table too. If you're going to be buying Valkyries anyway, you might start a list like this instead:

Company Command, Astropath, 4 Meltas - 120

Veteran Squad - 3 Meltas - 100

Veteran Squad - 3 Meltas - 100

Veteran Squad - 3 Meltas - 100

Valkyrie, Multiple Rocket Pod, Heavy Bolters - 140

Valkyrie, Multiple Rocket Pod, Heavy Bolters - 140

Vendetta, Heavy Bolters - 140

Manticore - 160

Exactly 1000. To build this will cost:

Battleforce - $95
2 snaptogether Cadian boxes - $18
3 Valkyries - $174
Plus about 45-50 bucks for all those meltaguns and to convert your Manticore depending on how you want to do it.

That makes this around $330 (~260 from a good online store), which is still a pretty cheap way to start an army and you'll have some leftovers in the form of the heavy weapons teams and sentinels.

EDIT: Just realized I spaced out and forgot to make room for the command squad's ride. Whoops. You get the idea though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

I am a noob to 5th ed IG. Can battle cannon's move and fire? I thought ordonance weapons couldn't move and fire. I am picking up my IG codex tomorrow and have some Russ's being built. If this is true it might change the payload I opt for.

Thanks
Chris

All Leman Russ' can move 6" and fire their turret gun in addition to any other weapons they'd normally be allowed to fire, even if their main gun is ordnance. So yeah, you can move and pop off a shot with your demolisher as well as your heavy bolter/lascannon/whatever.

Note that in the age of the cover save the battle cannon still can't generate enough wounds against marines to be worthwhile and its strength isn't high enough vs proper tanks, so the vanilla Russ isn't very good compared to some of the other variants.

**Kommandant56434**

Spooner6 wrote:
But the LRBT can move and fire its main gun, has armor 14, and can be equipped to be even more dangerous.

I am a noob to 5th ed IG. Can battle cannon's move and fire? I thought ordonance weapons couldn't move and fire. I am picking up my IG codex tomorrow and have some Russ's being built. If this is true it might change the payload I opt for.

Thanks
Chris

The rule that all LR tanks have is called "Lumbering Behemoth" and essentially you can always fire the turret weapon (no matter what it is) stationary or at combat speed. to move at cruising speed you roll a D6

**CadianXV**

Edit to my post: This list works out at £251, for 1500 points.
If you drop the Valks and Special Weapon Squads, the price drops to £166 for 1000 points.

**dreyco**

I'm actually not terribly concerned with cost as I am trading my space marines for nearly everything but the valks. Here is the stuff I'm trading in case any IG players see this.
http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=97837