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This has blown up into a debate at my house the other day, I wasnt even playing but could hear the yelling from upstairs. Do TH/SS keep their Int. One guy quotes the rulebook where it says they are just handled like powerfists, the other guys rebutal is that it says in the marine codex that the keep their int. Now i didnt have time to check before i left for work so someone please clear this up for me for the sake of my ears. Thanks

Where in the SM codex does it say they keep the model's Initiative?
That would solve the issue. I cannot find it, which has me leaning to call shenanigans.

What?

Ask him to show where it says they keep their Initiative.

Thunderhammers reduce it to 1, end of story.

Well, for attacking in combat, anyway.

They keep their 4 for Initiative tests. It's still on their profile.

Mannahnin wrote:Well, for attacking in combat, anyway.

They keep their 4 for Initiative tests. It's still on their profile.

Oh.
This too.

K so in combat they swing on Int 1. Ya i thought so but didnt want to join in without actualyl know Thanks for answering so quickly.

yeah, Powerfists/thunderhammers reduce you to initiative 4(1), kinda like bikes, this is 'pretend' I1, you still hit last but you can run just as good as the next guy, donno why it matters because terminators can't run anything down anyways

They still take I tests to try and flee from combat themselves if they lose. It matters for no retreat wounds.

They don't flee from combat because of "And They Shall Know No Fear"

Valkyrie wrote:They don't flee from combat because of "And They Shall Know No Fear"

Wrong, that's fearless you are thinking about. All ATSKNF does is stop them being wiped out by a Sweeping Advance and lets them automatically regroup.

Gwar! wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:They don't flee from combat because of "And They Shall Know No Fear"

Wrong, that's fearless you are thinking about. All ATSKNF does is stop them being wiped out by a Sweeping Advance and lets them automatically regroup.

But then they suffer 'no retreat!' wounds for how many wounds they lost combat by. (In other words, if Space Marines get caught by a sweeping advance, instead of being wiped out, they take No Retreat! wounds and stay locked in combat.)

That should be fine with a 2+ save though.

starbomber109 wrote:

But then they suffer 'no retreat!' wounds for how many wounds they lost combat by. (In other words, if Space Marines get caught by a sweeping advance, instead of being wiped out, they take No Retreat! wounds and stay locked in combat.)

That should be fine with a 2+ save though.

Assuming they attempt to flee and get caught, do they suffer the wounds immediately or only after the following combat?

It's immediate. Check out No Retreat! in your rulebook.

As well as "And They Shall Know No Fear" page 51 C:SM,
"If this happens then the unit is subject to the No Retreat! rule in this round of close combat"

This is assuming a unit of them somehow loses combat....

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:This is assuming a unit of them somehow loses combat....

My Callidus is know for doing naughty things to hapless Terminators.

Ever see a Broodlord and is gang of stealers rip out their spines and drink the oh soo delicious Geenseed? I have, on about 3 different occasions. All Term should fear the Broodlord. Got to love him

Wow. This turned form a question about initiative into a small debate about ATSKNF. Its weird how things evolve (not complaining mind, just interested).

And, in he rulebook, it says TH use the same rules as PF. So yes, the guy saying they keep their Int it is a fibber cause the rules for PF say that it reduced combat initiative to 1 with no modification possible form special rules or wargear.

Nice thanks all. But ya the ATSKNF is fairly interesting too. So if I get into combat with termies, they run, I catch them instead of sweeping advance I go back into combat and they take the number of wounds they lost the combat by. Or am I reading it wrong

The models get their saves too, it should be noted.

Just to clarify... if you're armed with a TH, you take your Jaws test at your base initiative and not I1, correct?

Gornall wrote:Just to clarify... if you're armed with a TH, you take your Jaws test at your base initiative and not I1, correct?

Correct.

So the end of the story is. they keep their Initiative but strike in close combat as if it was 1.

InquisitorBob wrote:So the end of the story is. they keep their Initiative but strike in close combat as if it was 1.

Agreed. Correct. Exact-a-mundo. True.

And its important to remember this fact. As sometime I forget that marines don't auto-die from sweeping advances and I just say "crap" and remove my models. My opponent, of course, isn't about to argue with me on it.