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I don't know about the rest of you but im kind of sick of the ultramarines and the Blood ravens. i mean when was the last time someone gave the rest of the chapters a new independent character? or hear of the ultramarines losing for that matter? in all the fluff i've read i still can't find one instance of them losing (besides maccrage but they thechnicly won that one).

oh and THQ need to make a Dawn of war game that dosn't involve blood ravens. I starting to think they are the only marines in that corner of the universe

who do you think deserves the spotlight?

See 5th edition SM codex. OR the SW one, for that matter.

Oh jesus a waaaaw why arent my eldars and tau loved thread. Quick, call all your friends, its gonna be a trollfest.

You think that's bad? What about the Chaos Space Marines? AND the Lost and the Damned? They ALL got the bum's rush!

There now, got that out of my system. You were saying?

Ultramarines are the Flagship Chapter for GW. The cornerstone. Love'em or hate'em they are always gonna be taking point.
The Blood Ravens were made for the DoW series. Why would they not have them in a DoW game?

I play the Blood Ravens and I chose them for their fluff when I started playing. It was after I painted my 1500pt army that I found out they were in a game. As such, I've had to put up with looks and sniggers from some people when i play my blood ravens, as they think I am a copycat and/or unoriginal.

I don't care if they get their own codex or not, special models or not, and I don't care if the Ultramarines are everywhere in the GW universe. GW makes enough product to satisfy almost all of the people who play, so what is the big deal?

If you want a special character, then grab your bitz and create one. That is how I am making my Thule dreadnought and how a lot of other people make their special characters.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Sinister Brain's avatar made me angry (angry babies make me angry... grrrrr).

Cheers

Eldarranger wrote:in all the fluff i've read i still can't find one instance of them losing (besides maccrage but they thechnicly won that one).

"Technically" they won that one. But damn it was a pyrrhic victory/heroic failure. Why? Cause they lost all of their 1st Company. And besides, if we look at the amount of newbie players playing Ultramarines, that's alot of Ultramarines losing battles, if you wanna take that into account.

As for who should get the spotlight, why not Space Wolves? They just got a new Codex, and people love or hate vikings in space. Werewolves abundle too.

But why not the other 1000 Chapters? The Rainbow Warriors? The Space Sharks? Let them make novels about your own DIY chapter too.

As far as non-First/Second Founding chapters go, Blood Ravens are actually my favourite, and their whole "mysterious origins" thing is an interesting bit of fluff for me. Just dont read the CS Goto books, and you wont ruin the Blood Ravens for yourself.

Quite frankly, I think all fluff from hereon in should revolve around the Cadian 88th Armoured Regiment's Sentinel Recon Squadron, "Dead Man's Hand".

Stuff you, Marines!

Eldarranger wrote:oh and THQ need to make a Dawn of war game that dosn't involve blood ravens.

I know it'll just tick you off more, but Dawn of War: Winter Assault featured Ultramarines, not Blood Ravens.

There you go, a DoW without Blood Ravens.

paulguise wrote: Sinister Brain's avatar made me angry (angry babies make me angry... grrrrr).

Oh sure, blame it on the angry baby.


I like the blood ravens actually. A lot more than the Ultrasmurfs. Though I do enjoy reading McNeill's Ultramarine books but that's mostly because he doesn't write Ultramarines as giant blue self-righteous, brats with bolters.

Could be worse though. DoW could have used the Rainbow Warriors.

Whoever gets the spotlight ends up getting hated..

*yearns for an Angry Marine novel*

But yeah, I would like some more diversity as far as Chapter-coverage goes. I don't think(I could be wrong) that there have been novels centered around White Scars or Raven Guard. I don't think there's a Dark Angels omnibus, either. Ultramarines, Blood Ravens, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Space Wolves seem to be the most often-included chapters.

Offtopic: I really liked the Blood Angels books and the one Iron Snakes novel.

Shaman wrote:Whoever gets the spotlight ends up getting hated..

Well, this is Dakka...

I'm just saying that it woldn't kill gw to share the love once in a while. maybe throw a special unit to the raven guard or white scars to make them fit the fluff of the chapter. ultraboys get tyranid killers, why not give raven guard staelth squads or salamnders pyro squads or somthing?

as far as blood ravens go, im just tired of them. no offense to those that play them. why can't the next game star black templars or imperial fists? if any ones going to luanch a system wide crusade its them

Eldarranger wrote:I'm just saying that it woldn't kill gw to share the love once in a while. maybe throw a special unit to the raven guard or white scars to make them fit the fluff of the chapter. ultraboys get tyranid killers, why not give raven guard staelth squads or salamnders pyro squads or somthing?

as far as blood ravens go, im just tired of them. no offense to those that play them. why can't the next game star black templars or imperial fists? if any ones going to luanch a system wide crusade its them

You take the specific captain/Librarian/Chapter Master and certain units get special abilities, or exchange theirs.
Pedro Kantor anyone?
Marneus Calgar anyone?
Vulkan He'stan anyone?
Oh, and they've got the Lotd. A whole unit of non-ultrasmurfs special characters.

Eldarranger wrote:as far as blood ravens go, im just tired of them. no offense to those that play them. why can't the next game star black templars or imperial fists? if any ones going to luanch a system wide crusade its them

As stated earlier, the Blood Ravens is Relic's DIY chapter, so of course they're going to want to use them. If they use more famous chapters like Black Templars or Imperial Fists, there might be fluff issues conflicting with what's in the Codii and stuff. Atleast if they use Blood Ravens, they can use whatever plotline with them without affecting what's happening elsewhere in the grimdarkness of 40k. Plus, the current DoW2 plotline doesnt revolve around system wide crusades. There's only so few Blood Ravens going about their business.

Meh... When I stopped playing Ultrasmurfs, I cut one up and stuck his mutilated remains on a hill (I painted the rest Dark Angels). Chaos hill, surrounded by pleasant green pastures? Win!

The Shrieker wrote:Meh... When I stopped playing Ultrasmurfs, I cut one up and stuck his mutilated remains on a hill (I painted the rest Dark Angels). Chaos hill, surrounded by pleasant green pastures? Win!

Thats hilarious my friend did the same exact thing. I was pretty gory

Addicted to Bleach wrote:

The Shrieker wrote:Meh... When I stopped playing Ultrasmurfs, I cut one up and stuck his mutilated remains on a hill (I painted the rest Dark Angels). Chaos hill, surrounded by pleasant green pastures? Win!

Thats hilarious my friend did the same exact thing. I was pretty gory

You were pretty gory? ZOMGWTF you're an ultrasmurf?

karimabuseer wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:

The Shrieker wrote:Meh... When I stopped playing Ultrasmurfs, I cut one up and stuck his mutilated remains on a hill (I painted the rest Dark Angels). Chaos hill, surrounded by pleasant green pastures? Win!

Thats hilarious my friend did the same exact thing. I was pretty gory

You were pretty gory? ZOMGWTF you're an ultrasmurf?

I think he means the model made him excited.

Blood Ravens? They're actually one of the cooler chapters in the 40K universe, why would you complain about them XD (and like others said, the BR's made their big debut in DoW, why wouldn't they be the focus?) The only problem with DoW is that DoWII is a game about the Blood Ravens without the word Librarian ever being mentioned.

The Dark Angels don't have a omnibus (I first said codex wtf was I thinking XD) but they've gotten their share of love in HH and a stand alone or two. The Salamanders are getting a series now, the first novel got released a month or so ago, and like the BR, the Salamanders are one of the cooler chapters. Honestly the only chapter I don't like is the Ultramarines, and its more just because I find their fluff boring compared to other chapters. Fallen Angels, a lost past, werewolves, mutated renegades who still fight for the emperor. A bunch of guys with a tacky color combo and being defined as "another face in the crowd that just happened to be first through the door" really can't compete. I don't hate them though. They aren't that bad, and someone has to be the tip of the spear.

I would hardly call the Blood Raven's beaten by a dead horse. The popularity of the DoW game spread 40k much farther than the table top so many people are more aware of the Blood Ravens than anything else in the 40k universe because the games were their foray into it and they haven't gone farther. The Ravens haven't been beaten like a dead horse they just got a really good run out of the starting block because of the medium they first appeared in. Ultramarines I suppose are probably overdone and boring, but hey, better them than someone cooler.

Look man, i know what you mean. Besides the Smurfs, i play Iron Hands. They dont have jack-sh**t. But why?!?! They're the only founding chapter that doesnt have their own...anything(that i can think of)! And they should! You could make so much out of a chapter based on bionics, a link with the omnissiah, and an especially burning passion for chaos, but still GW continues to pile present after well-wrapped, unwanted present on the Ultramarines and other chapters, while the Iron Hands are starving over in a corner.
And i disagree with all who say that the smurfs are just another face in the crowd. They're famous in the 40k universe because they're so amazing. They're (arguably, according to GW) the best-disciplined chapter in the universe. Think about it. The space marines are the elite. So that makes the Smurfs the elite of the elite. And someone had to be the first, and they were it. Cut us some slack, man. It does get annoying though, not being able to make up much fluff at all, because GW already wrote everything out!

all right i guess i see your guys point, sorry for ranting :( i guess the smurfs are boring and i get confused when the smurfs get a new heroes and stuff and poor blood angels get a PDF file for a codex?its just sad to me like General Fuzzum said chapters like the iron hands get jack diddliy. I do enjoy the fact that space puppies got some love with the new codex, I think gw should do more things with the lesser chapters like that.

and i guess relic did all right by the Blood ravens, but maybe it was just Goto's hideous writing and the fact that soul storm was filed with plot holes

warpcrafter wrote:You think that's bad? What about the Chaos Space Marines? AND the Lost and the Damned? They ALL got the bum's rush!

There now, got that out of my system. You were saying?

God no, I just cry remembering the 120 mutants I got stuffed in a case, never to see the light of day again.

Oh noes! How dare Games Workshop only focus on 5 of the 1000 available chapters! Think of how neglected those remaining 995 chapters must be feel! I demand that a book and a new codex is written for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!
*shakes fist*

C'mon man, you know what we mean. They could try and make more of an effort to spread stuff out to some of the other more played chapters like the other founding chapters instead of making more stuff for the chaptes that already have special units.

Heres an idea. Rather then trying to fluff out all of the marine chapters, they simply release codex ultrines with a trait system. So you have ultrines, furry ultrines, emogoth ultrines, Oriental biker ultrines etc.

Actually I dont even think chaos deserves its own codex. It should just be added to the single space marine dex, with yet more traits. I mean demon princes are practically space marine captains with some slightly boosted stats. Just give them a counts as wargear option.

They could use this to put more effort into the non human members of the game, thereby diversifying it.

...what?

Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Tyranids are far more fleshed, ruleswise, than the Guard.

I mean, really. It's a terrible thing when they want to give you more diversity--and you end up with LESS.

**Disclaimer: Hopefully those who read this don't take it as a personal attack. I don't think it's at all offensive, but I've been surprised by personal reactions to my contributions to debates enough to feel this necessary. I also got a little long-winded, so feel free to skip to the end for my direct and terse response to the OP.**

Aren't all of those complaining taking a rather lazy approach? GW has to cater to ALL audiences - casual to hardcore, creative genius to drooling idiot, violently independent to dogmatically trendy. Does it not, then, make sense that there would be a handful of heavily advertised chapters with enough fluff to stuff a thousand comfy pillows, as well as a few more well-known chapters with a decent bit of fluff/ICs/etc, dozens of chapters with little written about them, then a huge, gaping hole for player-created chapters? In doing so, they've allowed for widely varying degrees of creative participation while avoiding a blatantly alienating stance (although many here seem to disagree - many gripes are legitimate, most are just fruitless boohooing/screw you(GW)-ing) towards those who do pick other chapters. Whether or not you like the poster-boy chapters, whether or not you feel they're over-represented, etc, they're the right move for GW from a marketing perspective, as well as providing a fully developed and engrossing chapter for those who desire it and are incapable of or unwilling to get there on their own.

If your chapter of choice doesn't have a named IC of the particular variety you're looking for, make one up. Creativity isn't restricted to wholly custom chapters. If there's nothing, make something. If it conflicts, tweak it or ignore it. Maybe a character is there in the fluff but has no model. Use a counts-as figure or convert your own. I would consider the existing fluff and product line as a framework - a skeleton - around which you can build whatever force you want (provided you put in the time and effort) and I consider that a boon, in all honesty.

If very other chapter were as fleshed out as the Ultramarines, GW would crumble under the weight of its own product line and go bankrupt with all of the unsold stock from less popular chapters. The more chapter-specific bits need to be made available through smaller production runs. Wait, isn't that what Forgeworld is for?

UM/BR players may have been drawn in by video games or GW propaganda, or they may genuinely like the fluff/color scheme/etc. (Or they could be spiteful. I'm considering making up an Ultramarine Army army with a multitude of raised middle fingers and banners reading "Our allegiance was given after an informed and lengthily deliberated decision," or "We are mature enough not to consider our individuality compromised." But I digress...). Either way, they were drawn in, and that's crucial for keeping the hobby alive.

To the OP's points (my responses in red):

elderranger wrote:[snip] or hear of the ultramarines losing for that matter? in all the fluff i've read i still can't find one instance of them losing (besides maccrage but they thechnicly won that one). That's kind of the point... Some chapters have redemption as their fluffy angle, other's have perfection. The UMs are of the latter type.

oh and THQ need to make a Dawn of war game that dosn't involve blood ravens. I starting to think they are the only marines in that corner of the universe As has been stated, BRs were a chapter made specifically for that game. It doesn't really make sense for them not to use them.

who do you think deserves the spotlight? As I've said, the spotlight is where it is for good reason. Individuals players should lavish as much attention on their chapter(s) of choice as they want. That's the only spotlight that should matter.

paulguise wrote:I play the Blood Ravens and I chose them for their fluff when I started playing. It was after I painted my 1500pt army that I found out they were in a game. As such, I've had to put up with looks and sniggers from some people when i play my blood ravens, as they think I am a copycat and/or unoriginal.

I don't care if they get their own codex or not, special models or not, and I don't care if the Ultramarines are everywhere in the GW universe. GW makes enough product to satisfy almost all of the people who play, so what is the big deal?

If you want a special character, then grab your bitz and create one. That is how I am making my Thule dreadnought and how a lot of other people make their special characters.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant. Sinister Brain's avatar made me angry (angry babies make me angry... grrrrr).

Cheers

Unoriginal copycat.