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For the most part I've ran with assault terminators (usually a mix of LC and TH/SS), but one problem I've had on more than one occasion is when their transport is popped and they are forced to footslog. What I'm wondering is rather or not people are finding shooty terms more useful even though they are less effective in CC (and more expensive if you plan on giving them some upgrades).

While I do think shooty terminators can be useful and I use them from time to time.

But assault terminators can be sooo amazing its not even funny.

Yesterday at a tournament (game 1) I took down :

Canis Wolfborn
10 man bloodclaw pack with some armor ignoring weapons
10 man bloodclaw pack with some armor ignoring weapons and lukas the trickster
1 Rhino

without losing even half my squad ( 7[5x TH/SS, 2x LC] terms + 1 term chaplain)

However at game 2 and 3 my land raider got immobilized turn 1 and they killed :
Game 2,
A Large Boy squad
Warboss
Then they were wiped out by an amazing hi-str shock attack gun thingiemojingie.
(rolled a bounch of 1s n 2s for the saves)


Game 3,
Chaos Dreadnought
Chaos Vindicator
Then they footslogged slowly towards the next foe, but failed to reach them before the game ended.

However, other than maybe perhaps against the orks, I highly doubt the shooty terminators would do much better.

I run my assualt termies with TH and SS for all of them. They can survive a crap ton of AP1 or 2 shots.

i'd say the answer depends on which codex you're using. if you're strongly preferring the TH/SS, you're probably playing 5th edition vanilla marines as they don't pay extra for a blanket 3+ invul save. i'd agree that they're the most cost effective choice in that codex. for daemonhunters, BA, DA, and BT the storm shield is a 4+ invul in close combat only (and in some books only against ONE opponent!). in those cases, i'd rather have the option of shooting before charging as i need to take down one or two more enemy models before they attack since i won't be as survivable. for SW, it's about even. they actually pay what the TH/SS is worth unlike vanilla marines so it's a judgement call there.

I always equip 1 LC per 2 Thunderhammers. It works rather well.

Ie

6 Terms ; 2 with LC , 2 w/ TH

I always DS my termies, and they always have LCs, melta-gun combi-weapons, and one has a heavy flamer.

1 of 2 things happens.

1) they destroy everything
2) they draw fire

Hollismason wrote:I always equip 1 LC per 2 Thunderhammers. It works rather well.

Ie

6 Terms ; 2 with LC , 2 w/ TH

Ya mean 2 with LC, 4 w/TH, right?

I love using my WG as almost bodyguards for my main HQ, as they're incredibly good, and fairly cheap.

EX

Gridge wrote:For the most part I've ran with assault terminators (usually a mix of LC and TH/SS), but one problem I've had on more than one occasion is when their transport is popped and they are forced to footslog. What I'm wondering is rather or not people are finding shooty terms more useful even though they are less effective in CC (and more expensive if you plan on giving them some upgrades).

This is one of those things that is very specific to your meta-game.

A lot of the responses you are going to get are basically going to say, 'You can't afford to not have a 3+ invulnerable'. And according to their experience with large blast ap2 or plasma/melta, they'd be correct.

But look at THSS this way. Every time that unit takes no saves or takes their 2+ saves, then shooty terminators are better. if in your games you find yourself making a ton of 2+ save attempts or no save attempts, then you really ought to try out the shooty ones.

In my recent tournament attendance I have not seen a single shooty terminator unit however, so my expectation is that assault terms either needs their 3++ save, or their increased CC ability is more needed than more shooting.

Im about to test out a 10 man squad with 2 cyclones and lysander here pretty soon. Assault terminators are cool, but they are a one trick pony. If I see your raider with them, my eldar can pop the thing and then run and hide the rest of the game.

well, if you throw lysander into the squad, your 10 man squad is just as durable against most weapons as a TH/SS squad... spread out so a blast only hits 1 guy, and take all saves on lysander. he's there to catch lascannons!

Shep wrote:This is one of those things that is very specific to your meta-game.

A lot of the responses you are going to get are basically going to say, 'You can't afford to not have a 3+ invulnerable'. And according to their experience with large blast ap2 or plasma/melta, they'd be correct.

But look at THSS this way. Every time that unit takes no saves or takes their 2+ saves, then shooty terminators are better. if in your games you find yourself making a ton of 2+ save attempts or no save attempts, then you really ought to try out the shooty ones.

In my recent tournament attendance I have not seen a single shooty terminator unit however, so my expectation is that assault terms either needs their 3++ save, or their increased CC ability is more needed than more shooting.

I am going to quote the above in order to prove the veracity of the thoughts presented therein.

As a DE player I very much have more issues with the shooty Termies then the stabby Termies. I am certain there are lots of armies (okay, most) that feel the other way around (I know my Orks are not fond of Lightning Claws. Not fond. At. All.) But by that awareness alone it proves the real question does start to become one of the meta in your area and what sort of armies you're facing and what sort you're playing. If you're playing Deathwing I would advise to stay shooty. 5th Vanilla seems to heavily favor the excellent value they have in the Assault Termies, and overall for them I feel that is probably the better value.

How about storm scouts, teleport beacon and a squad of both.

I've never really seen Assault Terminators do much. I've watched them get wiped out by Khorne Berserkers. I myself have taken them out by flying around them with Tau Crisis Suits. Assault terminators are simply too slow in a mechanized game. You need some ranged firepower or to use extensive tactics to funnel the enemy into them.

My Grey Knight terminators run into the same problem even with 24" stormbolters. A Psycannon in each squad has helped tremendously. This could just be a side effect of me switching from Tau to DH however and always staying at long ranges and blasting away at the enemy.

rogueeyes wrote:I've never really seen Assault Terminators do much.

You've always managed to destroy the Landraider before they disgorge into your lines? Well, as Tau I suppose that's not unreasonable though I think your opponents might need to work on refining their LR cover methods. For Orks they are quite a problem since there is no easy solution to pop the Landraider without basing it - and once you base it the Termies are just going to stomp on whoever you based it with.

Thor665 wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:I've never really seen Assault Terminators do much.

You've always managed to destroy the Landraider before they disgorge into your lines? Well, as Tau I suppose that's not unreasonable though I think your opponents might need to work on refining their LR cover methods. For Orks they are quite a problem since there is no easy solution to pop the Landraider without basing it - and once you base it the Termies are just going to stomp on whoever you based it with.

With 4 twinlinked railguns in a typical list there's usually not much of a problem from Land Raiders unless there's 3 of them.

::shrug:: I run DE, 20 Dark Lances are probably even better at popping LRs then 4 twin-linked railguns. Though I did note as Tau it's not totally unsurprising. That said I still think your opponents might be giving away the shots to you too easily. Even if all 4 hit - 2 should glance or pen and 1 should be cover saved, leaving one glance or pen. ((Edit though I forgot to note the AP1 might help with messing up the LRs after that fact))

If your opponent got first turn he should be able to get a Landraider into your lines as long as the rest of his army is doing something other then sitting back and watching.

That's not to say they have - but I think it might be more their fault then the fault of Assault Termies in a Landraider.