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This has been a touchy subject in the past with many voices weighing in on both sides.....

I was just reading in the Dark Eldar FAQ about webway portals..

"If the Dark Eldar player holds any units in reserve, he must specify if they are going to enter the game through a webway portal or follow the normal reserve rules. If Dark Eldar units that are using the portal have not arrived yet and all models carrying a portal are destroyed before deploying it, these units count as destroyed. When the Webway portal is in position, it acts as a gate through which your ‘special’ reserves can enter the table. These models move onto the table from the portal marker, measuring from its edge as they would if they entered the table normally. The normal rules regarding enemy in proximity apply, notably that you cannot come within 1” of an enemy model except during an assault. This means that, if enemy models surround the portal, then models cannot use it to enter the table, except for skimmers, jump packs, jetbikes and other models that can move over other models. Units may not partially enter play using the portal nor may they charge through it. The moral of the tale is that you should defendthe portal until you have used it and not simply abandon it in the middle of the enemy."


What I find interesting about this is that it says to treat a webway like a table edge, and if there are enemy models within 1" of that table edge, there is no way to move onto the table unless you have a skimmer, jump back, jetbike, or other model that can move over other models (IE, staying 1" away).

It seems like this would set precedent for getting onto the table, as defined by GW.

No such thing as Precedent for GW.

Webway Portal != Actual Table Edge.

Two problems I see with this FAQ - firstly they have not described what happens when webway reserves become available and the portal is surrounded. Are they destroyed? delayed till next turn? put back into reserve?

Secondly, reminding us of the 1" prohibition is fine but tank shock ignores this prohibition. Since all dark eldar vehicles are skimmers then there'd be no point in mentioning tank shock specifically.

As such, I don't see that there's any precedent being established there re tank shock onto the table.

The codex (not the FAQ) answers that question - if reserves are available through the webway portal and cannot deploy onto the table because the table edge is blocked, then those reserves are destroyed. Much like a necron monolith treats its gate as a table edge and if its blocked or if the monolith is destroyed those reserves are destroyed.

And Gwar, I'm not really referring to GW precedent, but a higher order of law. If a precedent is set in law, then its used for future cases; there's no reason why a GW rule on something can't act as a precedent in light of future arguments about that same rule.

IE, this. People say that the rulebook doesn't clearly answer whether you can tank shock onto the table or not (I fall into the no you can't camp), but here's a codex and an FAQ expressly explaining that you cannot move onto a blocked table edge unless you can jump over or skim over the blocking models to stay 1" away.

Dashofpepper wrote:These models move onto the table from the portal marker, measuring from its edge as they would if they entered the table normally.

Dashofpepper wrote:but here's a codex and an FAQ expressly explaining that you cannot move onto a blocked table edge unless you can jump over or skim over the blocking models to stay 1" away.

In fairness it expressly states that the measurement is done as if entering the table normally, not the movement.
This could be read to disallow them from positioning models on top of the portal itself - if you are in the camp that disallows models from moving partially onto the table.
It can also be read to explicitely allow them to start far from the actual table edge without having to Deepstrike.

Or to stop the problem that would result in following the reserve rules that state that you must measure from the table edge when moving on, which would make the WWP basically worthless.

/shrug

It's pretty clear IMO.

The rules mention "models that can move over other models." which, while a tank shocking tank does not explicitly move over another model, it most certainly has permission to move through the space occupied by enemy models, which would be sufficient IMO.

Although in terms of this potentially being precedent I think you would be correct. If you were to take this to mean tank shocking is insufficient to enter a blocked table edge, then it clearly says they enter "following normal rules" and would go on to explain that those "normal rules" don't include tank shock, much like the argument for things that don't take up HQ slots being a mandatory HQ (which I know some people don't like) is based on the Black Templars FAQ because it explains WHY the standard ruleset allows it, rather than just saying "yes the EC can be your 1 forced HQ choice".

Thats a pretty interesting example you gave there. I wonder what others are going to say about it. (I'm in the no camp btw so im not gonna bother weighing my opinion in on this one)

Drunkspleen wrote:It's pretty clear IMO.

The rules mention "models that can move over other models." which, while a tank shocking tank does not explicitly move over another model, it most certainly has permission to move through the space occupied by enemy models, which would be sufficient IMO.

I think its important to keep the rule in context. It very clearly defines what moving over another model is as flying over it or jumping over it....not running over it. When you tank shock an enemy model, your vehicle stops while you sort out leadership / death or glory / etc. If you can't deploy or move onto the table within 1" of an enemy model, seems like a pretty clear answer here - blocking a table edge won't stop flying units or jumping units from coming on, but those are the only two circumstances for getting onto a board when the edge is blocked.

I was in an apoc game, and a guy wanted to do this when flanking a stomp. Now we were going to let him do it with reduced movent say minus 6 inches, but the problem was there wasnt room for him to be there. He made a big fuss about that he wanted to do it and we allowed it. I think it killed 2 guys and a tank. Then was removed on our turn.

Dashofpepper wrote:I think its important to keep the rule in context. It very clearly defines what moving over another model is as flying over it or jumping over it....not running over it. When you tank shock an enemy model, your vehicle stops while you sort out leadership / death or glory / etc. If you can't deploy or move onto the table within 1" of an enemy model, seems like a pretty clear answer here - blocking a table edge won't stop flying units or jumping units from coming on, but those are the only two circumstances for getting onto a board when the edge is blocked.

Its intresting that you say you want to keep the rule in context and then ignore the basic rules for reserves which state when moving onto the tabe they do so "...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal."

Ergo, for the purposes of moving onto the table the vehicle is considered to have a start position for it's movement, which it can use during the tank shock. Secondly the reserve rules also clearly state "moved as normal" and when tanks move as normal they can choose to tank shock.

Its an open closed case, and perfectly within the rules to do.

"Wait, but that webway portal rules say..."

Are we using the webway portal? No? Then who cares... its a codex specific rule that may (or may not) be different from the core rules which are the only rules which cover the question for tank shocking on the table either way its irrelevant unless you have a DE vehicle (with a torture amp) which has a specific excemption not allowing it to tank shock.

Claiming the rules for webway portals applies to all board edges is about as sensible as trying to claim that you can have Vulkan in a Space Wolf army because 'they're all marines.'