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I find that in most games less than 2000 named characters seemed to be kinda a waste of points. For the same price you can emulate many without having to spend the points for a name. What do yall think of named characters?

Many people buy it because they like the fluff or the minis sculpted for them.

Vulkan would like to talk to you.

RustyKnight wrote:Vulkan would like to talk to you.

Sorry I can see that some of the Vulkan lists have had some success but every time I've played him, he and his special rule hasn't amounted to much. So I'm not sold on him either. As far as a talk I wouldn't mind responding with a TH.

Did you actually build the list around him or just throw him into a list lacking in Salamandery weapons?

RustyKnight wrote:Did you actually build the list around him or just throw him into a list lacking in Salamandery weapons?

Sorry I played against him. The guy who used him had tons and tons of meltas/flamers. It was a regular spamming in a list comprised of sally love and SoB..
Hey I never said these guys suck I'm just saying are they worth around 200 pt + in a game below 2000 pts.. I have not seen many named guys do well in less than 2000 pts. That is why I started the thread for some more opinions.

Well, Vulkan is only 190 points. For that cost, you still get a pretty nice CC character. 2+/3++, a master crafted Relic Blade, a heavy flamer.

Overall, I agree that most characters are too expensive for use in standard games.

RustyKnight wrote:Well, Vulkan is only 190 points. For that cost, you still get a pretty nice CC character. 2+/3++, a master crafted Relic Blade, a heavy flamer.

Overall, I agree that most characters are too expensive for use in standard games.

That would fall under "around 200 pts" since it's only 10 off. Hhmm I have killed Vulkan with many different things that cost less such as, Arjac, GH, Vindicator, Lone Wolf, Wolf Lord, etc. Of course many of the time were with a squad and some alone. Last game against a vulkan guy, the poor guy kept rolling snake eyes.

*sighs in disbelief*

Special characters do some wtfpwnage.

Snikrot: Can single-handedly terrorize an entire enemy army list.

Zagstruk: Can deep strike and assault on the same turn with initiative order powerklaws.

Ghazghkull: He can single-handedly destroy anything in 40k. He makes his entire army fearless for the turn he Waaaughs! He gets a 2+ invulnerable save at the same time, not to mention 7 STR10 attacks on the charge. Oh, it doesn't hurt that he gives his whole army an auto 6" fleet for their Waaaugh! move.

Abaddon: Possibly the most ludicrous bastard in all of 40k. Up to 11 attacks on the charge, initiative order power weapon that's STR 8? The dude destroys everything.

Eldrad: I don't even need to elaborate.

There's a lot of absolutely lethal special characters.

Dashofpepper wrote:*sighs in disbelief*

Special characters do some wtfpwnage.

Snikrot: Can single-handedly terrorize an entire enemy army list.

Zagstruk: Can deep strike and assault on the same turn with initiative order powerklaws.

Ghazghkull: He can single-handedly destroy anything in 40k. He makes his entire army fearless for the turn he Waaaughs! He gets a 2+ invulnerable save at the same time, not to mention 7 STR10 attacks on the charge. Oh, it doesn't hurt that he gives his whole army an auto 6" fleet for their Waaaugh! move.

Abaddon: Possibly the most ludicrous bastard in all of 40k. Up to 11 attacks on the charge, initiative order power weapon that's STR 8? The dude destroys everything.

Eldrad: I don't even need to elaborate.

There's a lot of absolutely lethal special characters.

Sigh? Really? It's not a matter of them sucking there guy it's are they worth it in low games. I'm sorry but never ever name Abaddon in a debate of cost effective below 2000 pts again.

WarmasterScott wrote:

Sigh? Really? It's not a matter of them sucking there guy it's are they worth it in low games. I'm sorry but never ever name Abaddon in a debate of cost effective below 2000 pts again.

Perhaps you don't play the same 40k that I do. I play Orks, and Ghazghkull (225 points) goes into every army list above 1000 points. Call this e-peen wagging, or boasting, or whatever you like, but I'm willing to bet that at 1500 points, I can make a Ghazghkull list and you can make a non special character list, and I can beat you consistently.

In fact, Florida isn't so far from North Carolina. Right up I-95. Come on up to Greenville next weekend, and you and I will play. If you win, I'll pay your gas both ways, your food for the day/weekend (even put you up for the night in our spare bedroom), and buy you a battleforce box. If I win, you buy me a battleforce box and go home empty-handed.

Cost-effectiveness is relative to the tactics and skill of a particular player and how they use their army. Abby costs 50 points more than Ghazghkull, but is probably even more fearsome, and he'd make it into any of my lists if I played Chaos.

Serious offer: 1500 points, or a round 1750, or 1850, or whatever you want. I'll load up on special characters, and you can take....none, or whatever you want, and if you win, you've got an all expense paid weekend and a battleforce box.

Well I am not saying they suck completely I was asking opinions. Hey and please take no offense to anything I have said but if I can get the funds together that could be a lot of fun. I am a student at Fullsail(which unfortunately is a year round deal) and work so I can't time till then. As far as the consistant part, we will have to see. Again I'm not trying to start a fight I am just saying below 2000 pts I have not seen a great deal of success from 200 plus named folks. Just trying to make that clear Dash. I am sorry if I did cause any bad feelings. Ok aside from that heck yea I would love to play the orks if I get the funds and such.

Ok it seems I do have the time of a week during thanksgiving. Send me a pm if you seriously wanna do this.

No hard feelings.

Anytime someone strongly feels a certain way about something, or that their ideas are better than mine, I can't thing of any better way of deciding it than to meet at a table and settle it. I'm voraciously eager to learn new things about 40k, and if a lesson costs me someone elses' gas money....I'm ok with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just sent you a PM; lets get this set up.

If you total up the wargear costs, you'll usually find that they're far better for the points. A Space Marine captain in terminator armor with a thunder hammer/storm shield is 30 points cheaper than Lysander, but doesn't get eternal warrior, army wide stubborn, fortifications or a 4th wound, not to mention Lysander has a better thunder hammer.

The points difference is usually enough to make special characters an attractive option.

Well, hopefully this post isn't late, but for named characters, it really depends on your play style. If you feel like having more points for other things, or just a simple guy to lead your troops that's fine. But if you are playing this and such and need something to back that up. Usually one of the named characters will supplement that army enough to for what you are doing will give you a better advantage instead of the basic vanilla HQ choice.

Dashofpepper wrote:*sighs in disbelief*

Special characters do some wtfpwnage.

Snikrot: Can single-handedly terrorize an entire enemy army list.

Zagstruk: Can deep strike and assault on the same turn with initiative order powerklaws.

Ghazghkull: He can single-handedly destroy anything in 40k. He makes his entire army fearless for the turn he Waaaughs! He gets a 2+ invulnerable save at the same time, not to mention 7 STR10 attacks on the charge. Oh, it doesn't hurt that he gives his whole army an auto 6" fleet for their Waaaugh! move.

Abaddon: Possibly the most ludicrous bastard in all of 40k. Up to 11 attacks on the charge, initiative order power weapon that's STR 8? The dude destroys everything.

Eldrad: I don't even need to elaborate.

There's a lot of absolutely lethal special characters.

And then there is Space Pope.

Brother SRM wrote:If you total up the wargear costs, you'll usually find that they're far better for the points. A Space Marine captain in terminator armor with a thunder hammer/storm shield is 30 points cheaper than Lysander, but doesn't get eternal warrior, army wide stubborn, fortifications or a 4th wound, not to mention Lysander has a better thunder hammer.

The points difference is usually enough to make special characters an attractive option.

I'm going to quote this and agree with it. No matter what captain model you build it will neve rbe as good as a special character.

Good example is building a Vulkan style captain with 2+//3++ and a relic blade, storm shield, digi weapons etc and you still don't get close. 190 points with all this and a flamer... AND.. the ability to turn flamers melta weapons and thunderhammer sinto twinklinked/mastercrafted... its insanely good, all for under 200 points.

what can a captain do? run around as a more expensive copy doing under 5% of the benefits.

this also applies to shrike, pedro lysander. all of them built from captains will end up more costly, and you're not getitn gthe special army altering rules from each which honstly can be a huge advantage if your army is built with them in mind.

Hense the reasons perdo builds have sternguard, vulkan has MM/HF units, and why shrike can have his fleeting CC units.

The only ones I'd be curious of are Khan on bike, his outflank is nice but iffy due to reserve rolls, and his instant kill power weapon is ony good if you focus a character knowing your unit can kill off his guys so those 4 focused attacks don't mean only one guy dead.

on the other side your captain is 100points standard, thats roughly 90 points less than most special characters. so if your army relies on units and not built around using the captain as a cc monster then you can take him in a squad to soak 2 wounds or some power weapon wounds. and hes cheap enough to not miss.

HI all.
I play many games that work fine without 'the manufactureres idea of a good character.'

GW is a minatures company first and foremost.

A sculptor 'goes to town' makeing an awsome looking minature.
Most companies price it slightly above the average to cover the sculptors time.(As most people are happy to pay a bit extra for quality sculpts.)

But GW want to cover the massive overheads of thier inefficiently run corperation.
So they make it the prefered chioce over the 'everyday' options in thier codexes-army books.
And then price the minature at a premium,as they belive the increased price is justified by the in game effects.

Named special characters are totaly unecissary in game play terms.(Many games allow you to customise your own characters...)

But are an opportunity for GW PLC to expliot , so they do.

TTFN
Lanrak.

@Duce:
You are correct to be cautious about the Biker Captain vs. Khan.

There is a noticable difference in points and both play very differently.

IMO, the Biker Captain is a superior choice if it's lower points and you do NOT take the following options:
1. Uber biker command Squad.
2. Ass Termies with a majority of claws in a raider.

Even then, he's a steep price to pay for what he gives and takes.
Outflank is parlor trick, less useful to me than combat tactics. Hit and run and furious charge is nice.
But, Furious CHarge is either overkill or not that useful (command bikers/troop bikers respectively).
Hit and run is very nice, but it's only for one unit and can fail.

In addition, he pays for some bonuses he will most likely never use (running and fleeting).

The bike captain gets you what you NEED.
At a minimum of 150 points you get to take bikers as troops and have a claw for those random CC encounters.

I've seen many go the route of:
Captain, Bike, RelicBlade (for CC muscle), Storm Shield (to absorb wounds for bikers) costing 180 points... and still less than Khan on his bike.

____________________________________


But the topic in general... it really depends on what you are looking for.
Named characters are not always the answer...nor does everyone 'like'/use them, but they do have powerful abilities/synergies that some take advantedge of, and do well with.

Almost every named character demands a list tailored to them to make the most of them. This could give the army better focus.

WarmasterScott wrote:I find that in most games less than 2000 named characters seemed to be kinda a waste of points. For the same price you can emulate many without having to spend the points for a name. What do yall think of named characters?

I generally agree.
They are a waste of points in smaller point games.

Under 1000 and yea I agree totally. They are to easy to go around in small groups, and take up WAY to much points. But over 1000, they start to look more appealing to me. I agree that after said points cost, you just cant beat what they bring for only a few extra points

wuestenfux wrote:

WarmasterScott wrote:I find that in most games less than 2000 named characters seemed to be kinda a waste of points. For the same price you can emulate many without having to spend the points for a name. What do yall think of named characters?

I generally agree.
They are a waste of points in smaller point games.

KingCracker wrote:Under 1000 and yea I agree totally. They are to easy to go around in small groups, and take up WAY to much points. But over 1000, they start to look more appealing to me. I agree that after said points cost, you just cant beat what they bring for only a few extra points

In regards to both these posts I'd disagree, infact in smaller games you're getting even more bang for your buck. 1000 points for example. Vulkan in that list adds less twinlinking than a 1750 point army, but his ability stacks even more where each shot counts and each enemy dying is a bigger impact.

even at 500 points a captain will not do as much as pedro or lysander, yeah hes cheaper but those extra points spent gets you more oomph (Lysanders eternal warrior, or bolter drill for example).

The problem is their special rules which using vulkan again for an example is just an increadible boost, and most of their wargear is better than a captains version. examples being pedro's stormbolter vs normal, or lysanders thunderhammer vs normal.

Every bit of them is superior for less points total.

Sanctjud wrote:@Duce:
You are correct to be cautious about the Biker Captain vs. Khan.

There is a noticable difference in points and both play very differently.

IMO, the Biker Captain is a superior choice if it's lower points and you do NOT take the following options:
1. Uber biker command Squad.
2. Ass Termies with a majority of claws in a raider.

Even then, he's a steep price to pay for what he gives and takes.
Outflank is parlor trick, less useful to me than combat tactics. Hit and run and furious charge is nice.
But, Furious CHarge is either overkill or not that useful (command bikers/troop bikers respectively).
Hit and run is very nice, but it's only for one unit and can fail.

In addition, he pays for some bonuses he will most likely never use (running and fleeting).

The bike captain gets you what you NEED.
At a minimum of 150 points you get to take bikers as troops and have a claw for those random CC encounters.

I've seen many go the route of:
Captain, Bike, RelicBlade (for CC muscle), Storm Shield (to absorb wounds for bikers) costing 180 points... and still less than Khan on his bike.

____________________________________


But the topic in general... it really depends on what you are looking for.
Named characters are not always the answer...nor does everyone 'like'/use them, but they do have powerful abilities/synergies that some take advantedge of, and do well with.

Almost every named character demands a list tailored to them to make the most of them. This could give the army better focus.

I agree, but yet I do take Khan in my list. 205 points is expensive and I wonder if swapping him for a bland captain and taking 6 twin equipped heavy bolte rland speeders would be handy (36 S5 shots is nice) or anothe rbiker squad.

His outflank is only used for him and his squad for me which Is not me taking advantage of it, but reserves are iffy and should not be relied on as I've had them all on turn two and sometimes so haggered out that their shot up before next turn.

Although on your point about furious charge overkill. I see it more as a helper. It helps you kill the unit quicker so you do not get tied down, aiming for a guard squad is silly, but if you shoot then assault a terminator squa you have a good chance of taking them down and then fleeing. S4 would be more iffy.

But again this is taste and in a bike list you're needing a cc unit or something which can counter assault. Their expensive though and thus outflank does help get them on close to the enemy and stop early wounds before you get into CC.

Also the fact you hav 18'' fun range in from each board side means you can always hit something unless the enemy ottles in middle.

Hit and run is also only nice if you fight in CC and at the end of the enemy turn hit and run away towards another enemy so in your turn you can charge them and have your bikes shoot up the beaten up in cc unit you just left.

It's astonishing that Space Pope and Khan cost the same amount of points when you compare their abilities.

I've only seen the Space Pope on the board once.

It was in an APOC game and the Tau players WANTED him to die.
So that everything gets preferred enemy...and they had several other ethereals or had dudes in vehicles to counter the morale checks.

So...yea...sad panda for the Space Pope.