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Agamemnon2 said this in another thread and, rather than go off on that tangent in an already seven-page thread, I figured I'd just start a new one.

Agamemnon2 wrote:This leads me to suspect there's a lot of variation between different countries' wargaming cultures.

Now this is a statement I wouldn't disagree with for even one second.

First, though, let's define 'wargaming culture'. There's a few different ways to read that:
Wargaming culture = moving miniatures around a table to simulate war. Whether historical, fantasy, modern , or sci-fi.
Wargaming culture = painting miniatures, building model kits, purchasing and learning rules sets.
Wargaming culture = building tables, terrain, display bases.
Wargaming culture = playing in clubs, tournaments, conventions, local stores.


Taking just England vs. US into consideration here, it is my belief that England has a far more active wargaming community than the US. That's not to say that the US is inactive or that there aren't seriously active areas throughout the nation. There are more people in the US than England, so there's probably more wargaming enthusiast overall, but I believe the UK is far more "into" it on the whole.

Look how many wargame rules companies there are in America vs. England. How many miniatures companies in America vs. England. Terrain companies. Wargames clubs (with an online presence else, how would you know about them...). I don't count retailers as they aren't really a part of the wargames hobby for me since they often times just sell you the stuff and/or give you a place to play. Many owners I know don't even play games, they're just businessmen. Much like I don't consider Target to be a part of the fashion industry, though the majority of their revenue is clothing and accessories.

The US has the market cornered on conventions. I doubt any other country even comes close to ours in conventions per year or numbers of atendees. Likewise, The US has more FLGSs because there are so many more people here. Clubs, on the other hand, are far more prominent in England (and throughout Europe) than in the US. Yes, there are a ton of gaming groups that get together at Chuckles' house or whatever, but these aren't CLUBS. Think DakkaDakka before it was the store. It was a large group of people that enjoyed GW games, eventually created the website forums, and the rest is history. Clubs with websites, membership fees, dedicated halls to play in, many many games to choose from, even with elected officials are all over England. Not so much in the US. This is what I mean by England having more active wargaming community.

America has a very large Historical gaming market. Look up H.M.G.S. for a very large organization for historical gamers. They have a monthly publication, websites, conventions, membership dues, and they have 'reporters' that will write about convention experiences. In England, there are so many similar historical gaming clubs (albeit not as large) with online presences (at least there were in the late 90's early 2000s) that it blew my mind. I want so badly to play my 20mm WWII game, but there's nobody in Cincinnati that is interested in historical wargaming. If there are, they're few and underground. I was amazed at how popular ACW gaming was in England. Johnny Reb III was huge over there. So were Wild West games. Forget about WWII gaming in the UK. In the UK alone, there are/were more rulesets written than people I've actually played WWII games with!

Now, I've only used the US and UK for my comparisons. Most of europe fits alongside my views of wargaming in England. I'm curious to hear what other people's takes are on the differences in wargaming cultures/communities on a national level.



Ghidorah

I think the Aus scene is similar to the UK one (or at least used to be). More groups focussed on the "historical" periods than any other time.

There did used to be dedicated clubs for this, but declining numbers (people do die) and the need to attract members in order for clubs to stay viable changed this.

This is my experience anyway. The first club I was in was a dedicated Historical wargames club. Didn't matter if it was Ancients or Napoleonics or WW2 (15-20 mm mainly).
They needed to keep their club viable, so as new miniatures games were coming onto the market, and this club did run a major convention (150 players), including them was something they had to do. 40k was new then.

The Finnish scene is tiny, and utterly dominated by GW product. Alternative games are usually driven by individual gamers or small cliques, and availability is always a problem.

These days, there's something of a player base for Warmachine/Hordes, Flames of War and Hell Dorado. Before Rackham abandoned reason for madness, we also had a fair bit of Confrontation players.

chromedog wrote: this club did run a major convention (150 players),

are you thinking what im thinking

(sorry to be off topic)

I always thought that england had a more prominant warhammer scene because warhammer world (situated on top of the production factory (disaster waiting to happen or what?)) is in england. also i think warhammers the most prominant thing in england, i don't see much warmachine/hordes etc. round here (though it is growing where i live because of a new store that sells different systems(wargames heaven))

Gutteridge wrote:

chromedog wrote: this club did run a major convention (150 players),

are you thinking what im thinking

(sorry to be off topic)

What? That those 70 aborigines were just there for filler?

What are you on about?

I think they are taking the piss out of you, Chromedog. (gay orgy implied :( )

As for Aus, it's kind of an unspoken custom that you offer to buy your opponent a drink before starting. It's also an polite that your opponent politely refuses, accepts graciously (and returns the favour later), or offers to then buy YOU a drink as well. According to age the beverage may vary. When I first visited the local GW store, the manager told me about a match he'd had with his mates where at the end of every turn they'd have a beer. And after every epic moment (like the destruction of a baneblade) they'd have a shot of something stronger. By the end they were so wasted that they were using pet dogs as Monstrous creatures. I want to do something like that when I come of age.

We are heavily influenced by GW up here on te coast, mostly 40k. Some players do collect fantasy, and there even been a rousing interest in BFG and Inquisitor.

As turbo10k said in another thread WHFB is more poular in France than 40K whereas n the UK 40K is probably more popular (from the armies i have seen in FLGS and Warhammer world etc.)

Though I no longer live in the Philippines, I can relate my experiences. Mini Gaming is not a big thing in the Philippines. I have seen one FLGS in a large metro area with other tiny hobby store that carry the product. The biggest mini gaming community I have met with were players of Mageknight and Heroclix which really doesn't count as mini gaming.

Basically, with regards to Warhammer and Warmachine, this FLGS will have figures on display painted by either the shop owner or his kids. NO huge display of products or upcoming releases. Any information on new products will need to be discussed with the random players or the shop owner himself. I know there are players out there in the Philippines (ive talked to a few) but, they are more likely a group of friends that play in their garage rather than a FLGS as not many places are set-up for any 40K or Fantasy battles.

Needless to say, with such a small base for a community to be built, we would obviously have no conventions. A convention would probably rustle some bushes and the closet gamers would come out. I know you are out there. So, my battle brothers from the Philippines, please prove me wrong and speak up.

Interesting topic.

I do think the wargaming culture varies somewhat by country, but here in the US it can even vary by region. I've traveled for tournaments and sometimes there can be huge variations between the "local crowds" from one place to the next. My dealings with Europeans has given me the impression that they really don't comprehend the size of the US and I don't think most Europeans are even dimly aware of how much cultural diversity there is in the US.

Europe, Britain in particular, seams to have a lot of small cottage industries making wargaming stuff. I know they don't have hobby shops like in the US, so the culture has always been to order from catalogs. I do like Gaming Clubs with their own spaces to play. You don't see that in the US much outside of large cities or colleges. I think the reason is the idea of a creating a club and getting a space to play comes from the need for the space to play in. Most American homes tend to have enough space, a large basement or spare bedroom, where a couple of people can gather and play games so friends just go over to each others' houses rather than forming a formal club to rent a place.

As for Historical games, well in the US the distance and culture seam to make it a problem. I tried for a long time to get into Historicals but everyone had their own favorite rules system and scale. So every time you went to someone's house you had to learn an entirely new rule system. There was no common rule set, scale, or standardization. Flames of War has made magnificent strides in standardizing WWII games in particular and it's popularity has simply exploded, at least in my area.

In Canada after every battle you shake the others hand.

As for a wargaming culture? well there are the youths, then theirs my kinda age group then there's the vets who are in their 20s-30s.

Amongst adult gamers, it is not uncommon to play for beers (if one is in licensed premises or in a private residence.).

Shaking your opponent's hand after a game signifies that you not only don't think your opponent is a gakker, but that you hope this sentiment is also true from their POV.

I've had games where my opponent has not only not offered to shake hands, but has commented about getting to his next game so that he can play a "real" opponent.
These players are ignored in my search for a beer. I'd rather be at the bar drinking a cold one than playing them, tbh.

@Shadowbrand: I thought handshaking was universal?

I do it before and after every game. Some people here don't, though

Well that sounds like plain jackassery. Win or Lose, you always shake. And if it was EPIC you go and get WASTED!

EPIC MATCH = CELEBRATORY DRINKS = WASTED

Therefore:
EPIC MATCH = WASTED.

England is Ok. I just started collecting and none of my friends are into what I'm into. Kinda Sucks.

Cease

Sounds like the Middle East. Except the guys running the GW store were shady, even crooks.

I did have a few expat friends there who played though.

Here in Belgium wargaming is actually widely popular. I'm a member of a gaming club and at least once a week i play warmachine/hordes. every two weeks i play 40k. There are regular tournaments in Belgium (i think about 15 each year) and lately we've witnessed a rise in the number of FLGS from 0 to i would say around 5 that i know off (in the country).

Historical wargaming is rising in the form of "flames of war". I wouldn't say it's as popular as in the UK though. The most popular i think is Warhammer fantasy.

Bloodbowl, BFG, Mordheim and equivalents are played frequently as well.

Confrontation sadly is dead (they had such beautifull mini's )

Do keep in mind that from where i live i can reach te border of my country in less then 90 minutes in any direction, so local for us is kinda the whole country .

I personally always drink a beer while playing and will always offer my opponent one. As for the handshaking, I always do it before the battle and after.

Offcourse in Belgian people can drink a beer starting from the age of 16.

All in all I never have trouble getting my wargaming on.

I heard from a German friend that lotr has a large following there. (at least where he is)

LOTR? haven't even seen it being played. Maybe in other cities.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:I do it before and after every game. Some people here don't, though

Thats America for ya. Some are still polite, and others, are total jerkheads

Irish wargaming is probably very similar to gaming in the UK, except the competative scene is tiny, and everyone in it knows everyone else. It's very friendly though. There are lots of conventions (considering the population size of the republic) which are generally generic gaming conventions with a wargaming tourney attached.

We generally go for a few pints after the tournament, but drinking during a game wouldn't be common tbh.

From playing a few americans, I have noticed that they're more likely to take the competative side seriously than Irish gamers, and are also more likely to have nicely painted and assembled armies. That could just be my local group and limited exposure.

As for games, GW dominates but PP is coming up, and there are lots of historical players around too.

Ghidorah wrote: I want so badly to play my 20mm WWII game, but there's nobody in Cincinnati that is interested in historical wargaming. If there are, they're few and underground.

LOL, what?! There's plenty of people into historicals in Cincinnati. I should know, I'm one of them!


Have you checked out Yottaquest? There's a lot of people there who play Flames of War, and most of the people who play Flames of War play or are interested in other things. We've got guys who play Nuts! which would work great in 20mm, and a friend of mine who runs a homebrew Wild West ruleset. There's also talk of rocking some moderns or napoleonics in the future. If you want more information, just shoot me a PM.