Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok. I'm a 40K player, and I'm interested in getting into Fantasy. I want an army that is competitive and will help make up for my lack of expereince. My preference would actually be VC, but if it's just going to get rolled by Chaos Daemons, then I feel like I might as well play Daemons.

I guess my main questions are whether there are tournaments that exclude Daemons, and whether its possible to beat Daemons if you aren't experienced with Fantasy.

I am also interested in all flavors of Elves, but if you lose by default to Chaos Dameons, then that's going to ruin my experience. I don't mind losing, but if it's an automatic loss, then that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If you are a n00b to WFB going against Daemons, you're going to have a very tough time of it.

OTOH, if you're a n00b to WFB with a Daemon army, you'll do OK.

And no, there aren't any tournaments that exclude Daemons, though a lot of WFB players are getting sore over how just powerful the army is.

Finally, it's not an automatic loss - it's entirely possible that the Daemon player could roll really, really badly and play really, really stupidly.


Here's your basic Daemons list:

Heroes: Kairos (or Keeper & Masque), Heralds of Tzeentch
Core: blocks of 10 Horrors
Special: Doggies
Rare: Flamers

If you take this, you'll do OK just based on the strength of the list alone.

Daemons will never have an auto-win against any army. Player skill and knowledge of the game will play a much more dramatic part in determining the outcome.

That being said, Daemons and VC do seem to be trumping a large number of tournaments, but that is strictly limited to a large group of very competitive players. However, excepting large tournaments, your game-play experiences will vary greatly, and there is nothing to say your VC or elven army will not do well.

And, to be completely honest, starting with Daemons might be shooting yourself in the foot later on. Play an army that will teach you how to play the game, learn how to manipulate and dominate all phases of the game, memorize the codex for each army and then you will be ready to tackle competitive play. It may be that you do go with Daemons, but if you initially limit yourself to them you will be missing out on a LOT the game has to offer.

Also, 8th edition is coming out next year, and Deamons might not be so hot anymore. Just something to think about.

Above all else, play the army you want to play.

I see a lot of people saying starting with Daemons handicaps you later, but what does that mean?

It handicaps you if you switch from the absolute most-winning army to a less-competitive army?

IMO, a Daemons player will learn plenty enough about Psychology and Break tests when the OTHER GUY fails them. Same with Stupidity / Animosity. Learn from other's mistakes, and then understand why never taking a Psych test or Break test is a good thing.

Besides, with Daemons, depending on what you take, it's easy to dominate any phase of the game that you want. Default Tzeentch-heavy will easily dominate Magic phase, and do a hell of a job Shooting. Khorne dominates combat. Put the two together (Herald on Jugger with Dogs covering massed Horrors), and that's pretty darn good. Tournament-worthy, even.

But the idea that you're missing out is kinda wierd. It's actually NOT fun to lose because you get bad die rolls.

It's far better for n00bs to start with point-and-click armies - they win a lot more, and they don't have to keep track of so many things. Then, when they want more of a "challenge", they can pick up Ogres or Orks or some other bottom-tier army.

And kicking the teeth out of a "experienced" player simply because you have a better army? PURE WIN.

So Daemons is the top army and essentially in its own tier. So what is in the next tier of armies? I assume that VC and possibly some form of Empire or Dark Elf.

I don't play Chaos Daemons in 40K cause I really don't like the models. So, if Fantasy is essentially play Chaos Daemons or get slaughtered by Chaos Daemons, then I may just pass on Fantasy.

Daemons are tops, then VC & DE, followed by with Empire & LM.

I wouldn't consider anything not in the short list above. Armies are not balanced like 40k where you can just pick anything and do OK.

In uncomped WFB play, it's a degenerate metagame. You either play Daemons, or you play one of the other top armies as an Anti-Daemon army.

If you're not looking forward to playing Daemons, I'd wait for the WFB8 rules to come out and see if things improve.

HE aren't even on the list as far as competitiveness goes anymore?

Well if you want to learn the game, i'd say play an army that uses all the rules like emipre. But if you just want to play to win at torunie play Deamons as you really do not have to be good to win.