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Hey all,

So me and my buddy were playing a game of Chaos vs Space wolves and a couple of rules debates came up in mid game.

1) What does acute senses do? The book doesn't elaborate!

2) So my Khorne w/ Abaddon assaulted into his squad of wolves w/ rune priest, ragnar, and the dude with the str 10 thunderhammer. The debate came up of weather or not a squad w/ Furious Charge and Counter-Attack get the bonus of Furious Charge after using CA. The way I interpret the rules (per the BRB) is that you only get the +1 attack, but my friend argues that you get all bonuses of the charge... which of us is right? we decided (because we couldn't decide) to allow Ragnar the bonus and not the squad, but for future fights and our own reference it would be nice to know

Thanks in advance!

Zid wrote:Hey all,

So me and my buddy were playing a game of Chaos vs Space wolves and a couple of rules debates came up in mid game.

1) What does acute senses do? The book doesn't elaborate!

2) So my Khorne w/ Abaddon assaulted into his squad of wolves w/ rune priest, ragnar, and the dude with the str 10 thunderhammer. The debate came up of weather or not a squad w/ Furious Charge and Counter-Attack get the bonus of Furious Charge after using CA. The way I interpret the rules (per the BRB) is that you only get the +1 attack, but my friend argues that you get all bonuses of the charge... which of us is right? we decided (because we couldn't decide) to allow Ragnar the bonus and not the squad, but for future fights and our own reference it would be nice to know

Thanks in advance!

1. It allows to reroll for line of sight hinder by 1st turn Dow or anything that hinders sight.

2. First I don't think you can have 2 ic in a squad and 2nd no he would only get the +1 with a passed leadership tes not the benefits from ragnar's ability etc.

1)Acute senses is the same as the Night Vision USR in the 40k rulebook.

2)Furious Charge only gives a bonus to an assaulting squad. A squad with both Furious Charge and Counter-Attack does not get the Furious Charge bonus when they're assaulted.

For reference - Acute senses is listed in the Main Rule Book on Page 75. I couldn't find it for the longest time because it's not before counter-attack. It's listed as 'Night Vision/Acute Senses.

WarmasterScott wrote:
2. First I don't think you can have 2 ic in a squad and 2nd no he would only get the +1 with a passed leadership tes not the benefits from ragnar's ability etc.

You can have 2 ICs in a squad. It's perfectly legal.

Paladin Blake wrote:

WarmasterScott wrote:
2. First I don't think you can have 2 ic in a squad and 2nd no he would only get the +1 with a passed leadership tes not the benefits from ragnar's ability etc.

You can have 2 ICs in a squad. It's perfectly legal.

Hhhmm I guess a better question is why would someone wanna do that? That just says "shoot me!"

Zid wrote:2) So my Khorne w/ Abaddon assaulted into his squad of wolves w/ rune priest, ragnar, and the dude with the str 10 thunderhammer. The debate came up of weather or not a squad w/ Furious Charge and Counter-Attack get the bonus of Furious Charge after using CA. The way I interpret the rules (per the BRB) is that you only get the +1 attack, but my friend argues that you get all bonuses of the charge... which of us is right? we decided (because we couldn't decide) to allow Ragnar the bonus and not the squad, but for future fights and our own reference it would be nice to know

Best way to resolve this is to actually read the rules in question.

"If [a leadership test] is successful all models in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn." -BGB, p74.

You get +1 attack, in the same way that you get +1 attack for assaulting. You're not actually assaulting, you're just getting ONE specific bonus that is associated with assault.

WarmasterScott wrote:

Paladin Blake wrote:

WarmasterScott wrote:
2. First I don't think you can have 2 ic in a squad and 2nd no he would only get the +1 with a passed leadership tes not the benefits from ragnar's ability etc.

You can have 2 ICs in a squad. It's perfectly legal.

Hhhmm I guess a better question is why would someone wanna do that? That just says "shoot me!"

Cuz he made a kill squad specifically geared toward trying to kill abaddon, which included;

Grey hunter pack or something simular that had 3 LC guys, 3 TH/SS guys, Ragnar, Runepriest, and the other named guy with the str 10 TH. His plan was to pop the rhino, charge abaddons squad, and wipe them out. What ended up happening was Abaddon owned ragnar, my zerkers killed everything but 1 LC and 1 TH/SS guy, everything swung back and killed off all my zerkers but my PF. PF swung killing off his runepriest and the rest of the squad. The PF zerker died in the exchange. After morale (he lost by 3) he stuck in. Next turn Abaddon killed a lonewolf, the named TH/SS guy, and did a wound on a wolf lord... taking 1 wound in return. Abaddons pretty beastly @_@

Anyways, thanks for the verification! Now we know for future reference

Wolf guard pack

As long as Ragnar gets to hit (no 1 rolled on DW) the fact he hits first generally means he kills most ICs. Lucky to get everything through thtough - the 4+ inv and immunity to ID should have made him ok!

Ragnar is one of the poorer SW Special Character (writing an in depth review of them atm, so watch out for that Soon™) but if you do use him, you want him with wolf guard for certain. The ability for wolf guard to get up to 6 Attacks each on the charge is just unreal, and he is more than capable of wiping out huge swathes of models on his own.

Gwar! wrote:Ragnar is one of the poorer SW Special Character (writing an in depth review of them atm, so watch out for that Soon™) but if you do use him, you want him with wolf guard for certain. The ability for wolf guard to get up to 6 Attacks each on the charge is just unreal, and he is more than capable of wiping out huge swathes of models on his own.

6 attacks with almost any weapon you want(pts permitting).. He certainly is no Logan(He's about the only one I would take against Abaddon in cc).

i assume from how you put this, that it was Ragnar Blackmane "the young king" in a group of wolf gaurd, probably not in the TDA, but with upgraded weapons, and he had Arjac rockfist in the group, who is NOT an IC, he is just an Upgraded Wolfgaurd character. At any rate, when utilizing CA, you do not get any of the special Bonus's such as Ragnar's 1d3 attacks on the charge instead of the 1, or a better example is bloodclaws getting two bonus on the charge, as the codex specifies that no one is "that" fast. And since it was you who got the charge on his unit, Furious Charge is not in any kind of effect, and if he used "War Howl" again, it is used at the start of any assualt phase and lasts til the end (however if he did have one group waiting then -they- assualted you, they would benifit).

The thing im seeing is he must have been rolling terribly as all crap to not wipe out an Abbadon group, he has many attacks going first, his Th/ss guys get a 3+ inv, ragnar has a 4 up inv, and arjac has a 3 up inv, and a serious amount of pain on IC characters (which he -has- to put all his attacks on if possible btw) oh, and Arjac is EW, so he can't be insta-killed to easy.

but hope that at least sheads a little more light?

Nightrave wrote:i assume from how you put this, that it was Ragnar Blackmane "the young king" in a group of wolf gaurd, probably not in the TDA, but with upgraded weapons, and he had Arjac rockfist in the group, who is NOT an IC, he is just an Upgraded Wolfgaurd character. At any rate, when utilizing CA, you do not get any of the special Bonus's such as Ragnar's 1d3 attacks on the charge instead of the 1, or a better example is bloodclaws getting two bonus on the charge, as the codex specifies that no one is "that" fast. And since it was you who got the charge on his unit, Furious Charge is not in any kind of effect, and if he used "War Howl" again, it is used at the start of any assualt phase and lasts til the end (however if he did have one group waiting then -they- assualted you, they would benifit).

The thing im seeing is he must have been rolling terribly as all crap to not wipe out an Abbadon group, he has many attacks going first, his Th/ss guys get a 3+ inv, ragnar has a 4 up inv, and arjac has a 3 up inv, and a serious amount of pain on IC characters (which he -has- to put all his attacks on if possible btw) oh, and Arjac is EW, so he can't be insta-killed to easy.

but hope that at least sheads a little more light?

Well I charged with a group of 8 zerkers + Abaddon. I rolled a 4 for my DW, hitting ragnar 6 out of the 9 times, wounding with em all on ragnar. He failed 3 saves.

Zerkers did a metric asston of wounds to the group, forcing him to put 2-3 wounds on every guy in the group. The guard, of course, went down easily. He did roll bad for his rune priest tho, failing both saves. The upgraded guy and a few wolf guard lived (please note I attacked first). Ragnar had a Frost Blade, which made him str 5 needing 4's to wound abaddon. Due to this fact he only got 2 wounds (which I saved). And the Rockfist guy did 2 wounds, which I saved again.

The fact I got the charge off was the huge difference, but its what I had to do! if he got the charge on me my group would have felt a lot more pain than it did :( I just rolled well on abaddon is all, cuz the zerkers got wiped out after all was said and done! On another note I charged his guy on the wolf mount with 5 zerkers and only managed to do nothing to it, and in the process I lost 5 zerkers! So we both had some equally bad combats lol