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Why can't havocs carry a plasma cannon? loyalist devastators do, why havocs don't? plasma cannon is a very cool weapon, specially when carried by a single SM.

Why do we need Spiky Devestator Smurfs?
Why do we need everything that's loylalists?

Ok, so there's a handheld plasma cannon and mulit-melta pictured in the CSM codex, but don't exist..boo hoo.

We get our Plasma Cannon and Multi--melta kicks from Dreads and Obliterators.

Havocs and devs need to be diversified, not made to look more similar.

While hvy bolters and missile launchers and las cannons are common.

MM/PCs/Signum/Combat squad are for loyalists, while CSM get ALL of the special weapon options and get AutoCannons.

/shrug, maybe in GW's mind Plasma cannons are hard to maintain and are 'newer' technology to mass produce hand-helds for Loyalists, hence none in the Havocs entry.

It would be nice, but like Sanctjud said we can't just be spiky loyalists. What we really need is a couple of our own Chaos weapons to really be different. That would be cool.

We need our own gak like the Battlecannon on the Defiler, or Sonic waepons, we don't need to be SM's with an "evil" sticker slapped on it.

The reason is that most of the chaos tech is pre-heresy, in which plasma cannon and multi-meltas were too big to use by hand. So they are represented on vehicles and obliterators but not on havocs. GW does sometimes pay attention to its own fluff.

Yeah what Regwon said: Plasma cannons and Multi-Meltas were only really perfected after the Heresy.

Perhaps some Chaotic gifts that could benefit Havoc squads?

IronChaos wrote:Why can't havocs carry a plasma cannon? loyalist devastators do, why havocs don't? plasma cannon is a very cool weapon, specially when carried by a single SM.

-Why can't possessed roll for their power before deployment?
-Why don't Terminators get some actual benefit out of taking a mark?
-Why do the csm lose the benefit of their mark after the bearer has been slain?
-Why is the Daemon Prince, the best price/effect unit in the game, the least customisable?
-Why isn't the Chaos Sorceror Fearless?
-Why is the Chaos Dreadnought SO fething BAD?

..there's a lot of problems with the current codex...
oh and if you have problems with the fluff, you should talk to H.B.M.C.

thats what you Don't get for betraying the Emperor

you have sonic weapons.

now go cry in a corner.

praise his glorious name

There is a difference between fluff and rules.
I mean, Huron Blackheart captured a Space Wolf battlebarge...it would make sense if you play him you should get access to say... Land Raider Crusaders or other equipment on that ride...but NOOOoooooo.

Game balance... the SM are generalists, hence the plasma cannon.
CSM are specialists, hence the special weapons/Autocannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's one way of viewing it.

Grey Templar wrote:
you had sonic weapons.

Fix'd.

We don't even need Plasma Cannons or Multa-Meltas.

We have evil daemons and vile gods on our side.

What does SM have?

A dead god.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:We don't even need Plasma Cannons or Multa-Meltas.

We have evil daemons and vile gods on our side.

What does SM have?

A dead god.

exaaaactly! But, still that thing with the Daemon Prince is pretty annoying...i cant wait til 2010 when the new codex comes out..oh

We have Grey knights

Burn heretic



We also have the Star Child

2010, you come to DoW 2

you get a new Dex after Dark Eldar

Grey Knights?
They are not exactly in the Vanilla Codex.
___________

@ZacktheChaosChild:

Actually Sonic weapons still exist, it's only that they are soley reserved for Noise Marines and no longer for HQ/Bike/termies.

Sanctjud wrote:Grey Knights?
They are not exactly in the Vanilla Codex.
___________

@ZacktheChaosChild:

Actually Sonic weapons still exist, it's only that they are soley reserved for Noise Marines and no longer for HQ/Bike/termies.

Allies!

Yea, but you are reading too much into my line. I was saying very bluntly, Grey Knights are not in the Vanilla Codex.

Allies or not, that's different book, and I think it's a bit 'off' if we start going into more convex directions.

Daemon Princes are great, but they sure can get shot to hell. If Carnifexes can get to T7, Nurgle Daemons needs T7 too. I've thought about "levels of dedication" as a theme that could be really cool. It still keeps it simple, but adds a lot of versatility and customizability. Maybe allowing a certain number of levels of marks to be taken so we can split on certain characters (lvl. 1 MoS, lvl. 1 MoN or lvl. 2 MoN instead). That would make legions easier to do too, starting everyone off with one level of marks. now I'm just rabbit trailing, but I like it

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Daemon Princes are great, but they sure can get shot to hell. If Carnifexes can get to T7, Nurgle Daemons needs T7 too. I've thought about "levels of dedication" as a theme that could be really cool. It still keeps it simple, but adds a lot of versatility and customizability. Maybe allowing a certain number of levels of marks to be taken so we can split on certain characters (lvl. 1 MoS, lvl. 1 MoN or lvl. 2 MoN instead). That would make legions easier to do too, starting everyone off with one level of marks. now I'm just rabbit trailing, but I like it

true words of wisdom my friend!

sort of like, You get 5 points to spend on Marks.

I pick Level 2 nurgle and level 3 slannesh.(STD marines FTW )

I always kind of envisioned the reason why "Modern" marines get all sorts of toys that the Chaos counterparts don't is because the CSM don't really take care of their stuff. They don't have the Imperium of machine cults and slaveshop forgeworlds supporting their tech needs. Chaos is "old" and set in their ways, even when they induct new CSM (if they do) they teach them the old ways. Heretical cultists have a tendency to go mad and smash up the machine(s) of oppression that was the Imperial workhorse when they rebel, so the CSM don't get them new-fangled landspeeders and crap. But the CSM would commandeer a shinier Landraider or Rhino (and variants).

ok, I understand.
:"

what's this talk of giving havoks heavy weapons...I give mine 4 meltas and go tank hunting with a rhino :O

My buddie does that all the time.

one appoclypse game he outflanked with them and melted the rear of my Stormlord. it promptly had a meltdown

we could imagine the havocs going

we got it, we got it, death to the false emperor....... O%$&#, O%$&#, O%$&#

Anyway, I just bought the codex for CSM and JUST read it and JUST figured out my list. Don't really mind waiting for the new 'dex.

Yeah havoc are fine as is .... you can get four plasma Rifles and a plasma pistol in a five man squad.. that killing marines add, five more guys for meat shields and a rhino.... your killing marines ....

If anything I should be whining about you being able to have 4 special weapons

why dosen't the Mechanicus give us some more weapons

Diem ex Mechanicum

Well my only complaint is my Havocs are regular CSM and couldn't be Plauge Marines because face it they get shot up they run just imagine fearless and feel no pain now that would be worth the extra points!!!

And then to get that, you'd be limited only to Hvy bolters a la fluff...

@Grey Templar:
...well, you have Sternguard with 10 Combi-special weapons.
You get MM's and Plasma Cannon, Combat Squadding on the Devs... plus a signum.

In addition to having almost everything be a functional unit that doesn't self destruct...
But at the end of the day no body should be whining...this is (after all) GW we are talking about...

o well.

we have Devestators, you have Havocs. I guess it balances