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With all the talk about how gun control is needed right up to the banning of ownership, and with Columbine being used as a prime example to ban guns a question came to my mind.
How many here know people who advocate strict gun control that drink/use drugs and drive?
If a teenager or anyone else went into a crowded room wearing a blindfold, produced a pistol and began firing at random, not knowing if they were going to hit anybody or not, it would be a major news event and gun control lobbyists would be all over it. Yet nightly, people with no business behind the wheel after a night at a bar or party are driving cars and getting into accidents killing and maiming, yet this gets little or no coverage.

I used this link a couple of times to illustrate my point:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/14/loc_mahoney.html

There is yearly handwringing about Columbine and the gunning down of the students there, yet this incident has largly been forgotten even though more kids died in a far more horrible fashion.

What do you guys think?

I think someone needs a nap....

Um, in the UK it makes the news all the time. It's a major taboo, drink-driving. Doesn't stop some idiots though.

JEB_Stuart wrote:I think someone needs a nap....

That comment illustrates my point, if I properly understand the tone, it seems a lot of people don't think twice about drinking and driving.

I really didn't mean anything by it. I just want to take a nap...

There are rules to be followed for the safe handleing of firearms, same goes for alchohol.
Not following the safety precautions of either can lead to death or serious injury.

Illeix wrote:There are rules to be followed for the safe handleing of firearms, same goes for alchohol.
Not following the safety precautions of either can lead to death or serious injury.

I agree, but the point I'm trying to make here is that, from my observations, a lot of people that talk gun control to save lives are out there driving drunk. Add to this the huge outcry on the news if somebody dies by gun violence compared to news coverage people being killed by drunk drivers.(In the U.S., anyway)

So, how do you explain the millions of sober people who cause car wrecks every year? You might be able to reduce the number of drunk drivers, but there is no way to eliminate them altogether unless you want another age of prohibition, and that didn't go so well last time.

warpcrafter wrote:So, how do you explain the millions of sober people who cause car wrecks every year? You might be able to reduce the number of drunk drivers, but there is no way to eliminate them altogether unless you want another age of prohibition, and that didn't go so well last time.

I'm not talking prohibition or sober drivers that get into wrecks. I'm talking of people that carry on about how terrible it is to let people out in the general populace have guns because of all the death caused by guns and yet think it's all right to have a few and drive off impaired in their reflexes and judgement.

Oh, I get it.

People who blame inanimate objects for shootings driving drunk and possibly killing others themselves.

I would bet that they would blame the alchohol, as it certainly couldn't have been their fault! THEY are the victims of the breweries!

I don't see hipocrisy, just a continuation of dangerous utopian ideals.

Well people who do that are idiots.

However, you can't claim that all of them are.

Anyone who drives intoxicated is an idiot.

Anyone who shoots themselves accidentally or another person accidentally is an idiot.

Also, Columbine is no reason to look at banning guns. Those kids would have gotten those gun, legally or not. Odds are they weren't even purchased legally to start with.

Good observation, fateweaver.
In fact, the shooters committed 26 felonies (and several counts each thereof) and would have been looking at life sentinces before ever firing a single shot!

More laws are useless if the ones we have already don't work.

Albatross wrote:Um, in the UK it makes the news all the time. It's a major taboo, drink-driving. Doesn't stop some idiots though.

But is that because here in the UK guns are (reasonably) rare to come across so that enhances the severity of the drink driving in the eyes of the public and the law?
'Tis a strange world this one. I wish I was somewhere else!

The OC-D

1/5 Accidents are caused by either drunk drivers or people who are deprived of sleep.

4/5 are caused by average drivers, maybe we should blame them since they cause more?

I don't own a gun or drink.

Epic moral win!

JD21290 wrote:1/5 Accidents are caused by either drunk drivers or people who are deprived of sleep.

4/5 are caused by average drivers, maybe we should blame them since they cause more?

You miss the point of my post, it seems. I was curious how many people here know those who are advocates of gun control that think nothing of driving under the influence. It seems strange to me that these people carry on about how people are at risk because of guns yet think it's no big thing to put others at risk when they drive a car while impaired.
The news coverage of drunk driver accidents compaired to gun crime leaves a lot to be desired also, as my example of Columbine coverage compared to the Carrolton accident illustrates.
As many or more people are killed yearly in the U.S. by drunk drivers as by gun crime, yet the media doesn't trumpet that about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cheese Elemental wrote:Well people who do that are idiots.

However, you can't claim that all of them are.

I'm not, but from what I've observed a fair number are.

I think the fundamental difference is simply that guns are a tool specifically designed and produced for killing while alcohol is a drug designed and produced to 'calm nerves' and give people a minor escape from everyday pressures.

It is this difference that scares people despite the fact that either can be abused, misused or mishandled. People don't normally drink and visualize destruction, when someone fires a gun (on a psychological level) it is to destroy something, even if that something is simply the explosion of the round going off. Or in other words; even a drunk driver that kills others (despite the fact they are idiotic or nihilistic) isn't doing it intentionally (well 99 out of 100 times). Almost every time someone kills someone else with a gun, it is an intentional act.

Some data on acohol related driving fatalities:

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html

Not sure where the OP lives but drunk driving gets a TON of attention around here both from the media and the law. DUI's are taken pretty seriously and there's a zero tolerance vibe easily seen on government sponsored commercials.

People also look down on DUI offenders especially repeaters; in fact these guys are almost second class citizens to many since their behavior is incredibly dangerous. Also its unfortunately a daily occurrence.

And there are PLENTY of activists going against drunk driving and to an extent alcohol, Mothers Against Drunk Driving anyone? http://www.madd.org/

Maybe the OP is of the older generation but newer generations see quite a few posters and videos about DUI victims and perps throughout the later years of gradeschool and especially during driver's ed.

SilverMK2 wrote:I don't own a gun or drink.

Epic moral win!

I drink guns.

GoFenris wrote:Almost every time someone kills someone else with a gun, it is an intentional act.

I think I'd count that as a point in the guns' favor. I can see how people would react more emotionally to it, though.

SilverMK2 wrote:I don't own a gun or drink.

Epic moral win!

I can't drive yet, I don't drink or own a gun or take drugs.

Epic Moral Win Squared.

The OC-D

I was curious how many people here know those who are advocates of gun control that think nothing of driving under the influence. It seems strange to me that these people carry on about how people are at risk because of guns yet think it's no big thing to put others at risk when they drive a car while impaired.

Who are these people? I've never met or heard of anyone who holds these views - it's a leeetle bit of a generalisation to imply that indifference to the dangers of drink-driving is widespread amongst gun-control supporters, isn't it?

I drink guns.

I defend my home and property with a bottle of Peach Schnapps.

SilverMK2 wrote:I don't own a gun or drink.

Epic moral win!

Get properly trained in firearms handling and drink in moderation. Perfect victory!

j/k, whatever you feel is morally correct, Romans 14:14 and all that.

Illeix wrote:Get properly trained in firearms handling and drink in moderation. Perfect victory!

j/k, whatever you feel is morally correct, Romans 14:14 and all that.

Haha, I would love to take up shooting. It is just rather harder to do in the UK than it is in the States.

But I am good on the no booze thanks

Can you legally own rimfire rifles? 22's and such?

That's the perfect rifle for informal target shooting. Inexpensive and the ammunition is very mild.

Illeix wrote:Can you legally own rimfire rifles? 22's and such?

That's the perfect rifle for informal target shooting. Inexpensive and the ammunition is very mild.

Our Olympic shooting team can't even train in the UK, so no

We even have increasing difficulty these days in buying air guns, let alone anything which actually fires a bullet...

We have what I am sure you would find, as an American, a rather draconian gun control system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

The logic of the OP seems to be "Some people who complain about guns are drink-drivers, therefore all people who complain about guns should shut up." I know that is not said explicitly, and I doubt that is the OP's intent, but it is very much how it comes across to me...

In the UK, I think drink-driving has a reached the stage of being a major major taboo, thankfully. Of course, it still happens. I lost touch with a whole circle of friends. It was partly to do with the fact I refused to have anything to do a with a member of that group who was a regular drink-driver. Basically, another friend got hold of his keys one time when all of us were very drunk and gave them to me to look after. He had been drinking for 6+ hours - beer, cocktails, other spirits, wine - we were all very drunk. For 4+ hours I refused to give them back. Everyone said "It is his choice if he wants to risk it." I said, "I don't give a f*** if he wants to risk it. In fact, if he gets these keys from me, I KNOW he'll get caught; I'll call the police before he even reaches the car. But, I am not having someones death on my conscience if he mows someone down half way up the road, though." No-one saw my point of view. We kinda semi made up, but something similar happened a few weeks later with some of them in the car with him, equally drunk again. Some of the others actually conspired to trick me into not stopping him drink drive. I lost touch with all but two of them, and then over time both of them as well.

Fifty wrote:The logic of the OP seems to be "Some people who complain about guns are drink-drivers, therefore all people who complain about guns should shut up." I know that is not said explicitly, and I doubt that is the OP's intent, but it is very much how it comes across to me...

In the UK, I think drink-driving has a reached the stage of being a major major taboo, thankfully. Of course, it still happens. I lost touch with a whole circle of friends. It was partly to do with the fact I refused to have anything to do a with a member of that group who was a regular drink-driver. Basically, another friend got hold of his keys one time when all of us were very drunk and gave them to me to look after. He had been drinking for 6+ hours - beer, cocktails, other spirits, wine - we were all very drunk. For 4+ hours I refused to give them back. Everyone said "It is his choice if he wants to risk it." I said, "I don't give a f*** if he wants to risk it. In fact, if he gets these keys from me, I KNOW he'll get caught; I'll call the police before he even reaches the car. But, I am not having someones death on my conscience if he mows someone down half way up the road, though." No-one saw my point of view. We kinda semi made up, but something similar happened a few weeks later with some of them in the car with him, equally drunk again. Some of the others actually conspired to trick me into not stopping him drink drive. I lost touch with all but two of them, and then over time both of them as well.

Close, but I don't think everyone who complains about guns should shut up. I saw yet another Columbine mention and the debate over fire arms, yet I don't believe one poster in 10 here knows about the Carrolton crash.

Just be glad you don't live in Ireland.

The Government here shot down a bill to raise the penalties for Drink Driving, as it might hurt pubs apparently and at one point a minister suggested having a different blood alcohol limit for rural areas to urban areas.