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Hollismason wrote: Well the D-Cannon Batteries only have a 24" range so you can stay away from them on the first turn. Gonna have to deal with them eventually but it's a option now.
"Only" have a generic weapon range, and basically give up a turn of shooting to stave them off a little longer.
Like I said, no counter.
The counter is that they're 2 wound Artillery Pieces. Shoot them. They're also small blasts, so can easily miss, and/or get cover if you're smart.
Even a single one can easily earn it's points back several times over in a single turn of shooting if allowed to live. If the opponent gets first turn? Forget it.
12 or less range D? No sweat. Wraithknight? Until the day I have my own superheavy that isn't an un-FAQed 6th edition pylon I'll just say I'm not playing an Escalation game. The bikes everyone is panicking about? Every Codex has ups and downs.
Cheap 24 inch D? Yeah, that's not really a winnable scenario. Everyone's focusing on the wrong things really.
Hollismason wrote: Well the D-Cannon Batteries only have a 24" range so you can stay away from them on the first turn. Gonna have to deal with them eventually but it's a option now.
"Only" have a generic weapon range, and basically give up a turn of shooting to stave them off a little longer.
Like I said, no counter.
The counter is that they're 2 wound Artillery Pieces. Shoot them. They're also small blasts, so can easily miss, and/or get cover if you're smart.
Even a single one can easily earn it's points back several times over in a single turn of shooting if allowed to live. If the opponent gets first turn? Forget it.
12 or less range D? No sweat. Wraithknight? Until the day I have my own superheavy that isn't an un-FAQed 6th edition pylon I'll just say I'm not playing an Escalation game. The bikes everyone is panicking about? Every Codex has ups and downs.
Cheap 24 inch D? Yeah, that's not really a winnable scenario. Everyone's focusing on the wrong things really.
Those batteries will also have Preffered Enemy. Though I'm not sure what that means with a barrage weapon. Does it allow a reroll on the D table?
Even a single one can easily earn it's points back several times over in a single turn of shooting if allowed to live. If the opponent gets first turn? Forget it.
12 or less range D? No sweat. Wraithknight? Until the day I have my own superheavy that isn't an un-FAQed 6th edition pylon I'll just say I'm not playing an Escalation game. The bikes everyone is panicking about? Every Codex has ups and downs.
Cheap 24 inch D? Yeah, that's not really a winnable scenario. Everyone's focusing on the wrong things really.
You know they can't move and shoot, right? So if they have first turn, it literally doesn't matter.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/25 18:54:45
Even a single one can easily earn it's points back several times over in a single turn of shooting if allowed to live. If the opponent gets first turn? Forget it.
12 or less range D? No sweat. Wraithknight? Until the day I have my own superheavy that isn't an un-FAQed 6th edition pylon I'll just say I'm not playing an Escalation game. The bikes everyone is panicking about? Every Codex has ups and downs.
Cheap 24 inch D? Yeah, that's not really a winnable scenario. Everyone's focusing on the wrong things really.
You know they can't move and shoot, right? So if they have first turn, it literally doesn't matter.
You know that the majority of weapons are range 24 right? If you cower in the back of your deployment zone you've put yourself at a huge disadvantage and will need some serious luck rooting them out on your turn with most builds from most armies to not let them get some fire off anyhow. Managable if it's just the one I guess.
Even a single one can easily earn it's points back several times over in a single turn of shooting if allowed to live. If the opponent gets first turn? Forget it.
12 or less range D? No sweat. Wraithknight? Until the day I have my own superheavy that isn't an un-FAQed 6th edition pylon I'll just say I'm not playing an Escalation game. The bikes everyone is panicking about? Every Codex has ups and downs.
Cheap 24 inch D? Yeah, that's not really a winnable scenario. Everyone's focusing on the wrong things really.
You know they can't move and shoot, right? So if they have first turn, it literally doesn't matter.
You know that the majority of weapons are range 24 right? If you cower in the back of your deployment zone you've put yourself at a huge disadvantage and will need some serious luck rooting them out on your turn with most builds from most armies to not let them get some fire off anyhow. Managable if it's just the one I guess.
I mean, if they're within range to shoot at you, whatever it is can shoot back. And if they've put it at their deployment zone, then it shouldn't be an issue. Especially if you have Destroyers. One shooting phase from them and you'll kill most of their artillery. Or Deathmarks on turn 2. Or Tesla Destructors. We have options, bro.
Well a destroyer will put something like 1/3 wounds on a Wraithknight, so three squads of three (minimum cult) will take it down by 50% in a single round.
Vaul Batteries are countered by sitting out of their range and then shooting them before they shoot back. Drop on them with Scythes. Pop forward with Veil or Obyron. Zoom up with Jetbikes and shoot the crap out of them. Shoot with Destroyers and then Jump backwards so they can't counter attack. Shoot it with flyers. They're not invincible, and my foot slogging Warriors know all about how easy it can be to dance around 24 inches, especially if you can't move and shoot.
Requizen wrote: Vaul Batteries are countered by sitting out of their range and then shooting them before they shoot back. Drop on them with Scythes. Pop forward with Veil or Obyron. Zoom up with Jetbikes and shoot the crap out of them. Shoot with Destroyers and then Jump backwards so they can't counter attack. Shoot it with flyers. They're not invincible, and my foot slogging Warriors know all about how easy it can be to dance around 24 inches, especially if you can't move and shoot.
D Artillery is among the least of my worries.
Agreed. I actually see very few people using them simply because they're not really a threat, and are easily countered.
I think Necrons are better off avoiding the use of large targets against Dspam.
Horde up seems to be the best answer to non Dscythes. Wraithcannons are not going to be useful killing warriors. But give them 100+ pts vehicles and it will have a field day all over you.
That is why I think playing eldar is just a lesson in rock, paper, scissors. If you bring the right stuff you might win and the wrong stuff you will probably lose.
I don't think there is much that can be done to mitigate that. So for me I will just keep running my TAC mech list and IF I play and IF they are eldar I will likely lose but whatever I guess.
Deathmarks with a D.lord +solar staff is 305pts give or take and has a good change of downing the WK in a single shooting phase if in RF distance turn it deepstrikes (this is assuming DS on your turn not during the eldar player's turn).
20shots hitting on 3+ with re-roll 1's from PEE is 16.67 hits wounding on 2+ with re-roll 1's with 6's being ap2 is 2.78 ap2 wounds and 13.53 3+ armor saves 4.46 so 7.2449 wounds pre-fnp, after FNP is 4.78 on average. with minor luck is doable. The three s5 ap3 shots from the D.lord has a small chance of a wound but the blinding test is the more important bit since it just requires a hit and not a wound, maybe give the D.lord a tachy arrow for that s10 ap1 shot since it doesn't take away anything.
The solar staff pop's during the eldar player's turn and now has pusdo-invis for a turn allowing it to finish off the WK next turn or to focus on something else after since it will only wound on 6's after the DS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/26 02:53:23
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
I know that it's a serious conversation, but now I can't take Preferred Enemy: Everything seriously ever again
With a D.lord everyone in it's unit can share it's PEE. Having PEE can save your life if used right.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
krodarklorr wrote: So, just had my first game against Newdar last night guys. Was rough starting out, but I came back and won by a landslide.
Probably going to have to offer more information if people are going to take anything away from your story.
Well, duh. I was at work and didn't feel like explaining everything unless someone was interested in hearing about the game. Our lists were as follows.
2000 points, Dawn of War, Purge the Alien. He siezed the initiative and fired his entire army into my Spyder, managing to kill it (I actually made both cover saves against the D weapons). Then my first turn, made some jetbikes jink, kill a Warp Spyder or 2, and got the Wraithknight down the 2 wounds with half my army. I also tied up the Sorpions, not killing them, for about 3 combat phases with the Wraiths. Then the next few turns were him moving up to shoot me and try to kite me a bit, Reapers hid in cover on his back field. The Wraithknight killed a few units on his own, also stomping the D-lord out of existence. The rest of my army was getting pelted by BS5 shooting everywhere, and I made very few RP rolls. It was looking rather grim, I'll admit. Around turn 3, however, I managed to kill the Wraithknight, and starting pushing back. He started losing more than I was, and once my Lychguard and overlord made it to about midfield and made their first charge, they killed 2 Wave Serpents, Fire dragons, and bikes on their own, only losing 2 models. The rest of his army just started crumbling once everything got within rapid-fire range. Ended on the bottom of turn 5 with me only losing a unit of Destroyers, A unit of immortals, the Destroyer lord, the Spyder, and the scarabs. And I had lost a fair amount of models here and there otherwise. He was tabled.
Well after doing a bunch of math, I think that Decurion Necrons have the tools to deal with Eldar (which is evidence for my theory that the codexes were balanced against each other -- but then what happened wih Daemonkin?). Necrons, especially with a Res Orb, are easily tough enough to stand up againt scatter laser bikes (or any other Eldar infantry barring Wraiths in shooting), and Praetorians (especially backed up with a Stalker), Destroyers, Lychguard, and Wraiths (especially with Shred!) can all do a number on Wraithknights (in fact a big mob of Scarabs wiith Shred will hurt Wraithknights).
(The damage Dire Avengers put out on Necrons -- even with BS5 and Assault 3 -- is actually quite paltry.)
I don't think that any other army has the ability, though.
Alcibiades wrote: (which is evidence for my theory that the codexes were balanced against each other -- but then what happened wih Daemonkin?).
Same thing that happened to Dark Angels.
So it seems that my future investment in a destroyer cult will be worth it. Any merit to a majority destroyer and tomb blade decurion with new eldar out?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/27 16:40:48
Alcibiades wrote: (which is evidence for my theory that the codexes were balanced against each other -- but then what happened wih Daemonkin?).
Same thing that happened to Dark Angels.
So it seems that my future investment in a destroyer cult will be worth it. Any merit to a majority destroyer and tomb blade decurion with new eldar out?
Tomb Blades actually aren't as effective now, with Holofields. I usually keep them with Gauss Blasters and scopes, but still having a 5++ kinda sucks. However, they eat Dire Avengers and Swooping Hawks alive though, so there's that. And Destroyers are the bane of Eldar, through and through. As well as any MEQ unit, in all honestly.
What are thoughts on taking fortifications in general? I'm assuming they can't be taken with a Decurion? But with a CAD, I was thinking a Void Shield Generator would be a nice thing to have to protect backfield units for a little while for a pretty small points cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/27 20:45:33
Shikei wrote: What are thoughts on taking fortifications in gerneral? I'm assuming they can't be taken with a Decurion? But with a CAD, I was thinking a Void Shield Generator would be a nice thing to have to protect backfield units for a little while for a pretty small points cost.
Yeah, can't be taken with Decurion, otherwise I'd be using my Void Shield Generator for sure. =P
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alcibiades wrote: On paper, Tomb Blades with Tesla (for range reasons) should work OK against Eldar jetbikes.
Yes, they would perform quite well, I'd think. I might have to give those a try.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/27 20:43:55
The one piece of counterevidence to my theory that the codexes were balanced against each other is that the poor C'tan Shards will be one-shotted by a squad of scatter-laser bikes.
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