Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone. I play an IG army and my girlfriend is playing nids. I was helping her write out her army the other day and we stumbled upon an interesting predicament. It refers to upgrading the hive tyrant. Here goes.

We want to put these two things on her tyrant:
Biomorph Extended Carapace- "A tyranid with extended carapace gains +1 to its armor save, so a tyranid with a 5+ armor save will instead have a 4+ armor save and so on."

Psychic Power Warp Field- "Defensive psychic barriers give the creature a 2+ armor save and a 6+ invulnerable save."

Ok so here is the question. If we do both of these upgrades, will she have a 1+save? The warp field + EC = 1+save. I would also like to mention that in the codex it does not state that those two items can not be used together, like some biomorphs (acid maw and bio-plasma for example).

I am leaning toward the hive tyrant recieving a 1+ save. Any help is greatly appreciated. Oh, those are direct quotes from the codex. Biomorphs are on page 32-33, psychic powers on 31 and Tyrant on 35. Thanks guys.

Armor only gets as good as 2+.

Warp Field + extended carapace = waste of points.

Yep kirsanth hit the nail on the head.

Read Page 24 of the Rulebook. 'No save can ever be improved beyond 2+. A roll of a 1 always fails.'

I am aware of the 'codex trumps rulebook' rule, but unless your codex specifically states that you do not fail your saves on a roll of a 1, or that your a save can be modified to 1+; you can't do it.

Raw you can, but a 1 fails. So this is only good against AP2 weapons.

Thanks. That was just the sort of rule we were trying to find. I suppose we just missed it. That sorts it out.

Clthomps wrote:Raw you can, but a 1 fails. So this is only good against AP2 weapons.

Nope, not in the least. If you read the biomorph rules in the codex, you would see that there is no way that Extended Carapace and Warp Field would give a 1+ save.

2+ is the most you can have! Run Warp Field if your running a melee tyrant, its a great ability. If your running a shooty-rant, run tyrant guards. Don't even worry about buffing his armor.

When me and my friends started playing, a good buddy of mine was playing nids. He swore that he could get a 1+ armor save, We ended up having to call a GW store!

Then your friend was cheating.

This topic used to come up frequently enough back when the codex was knew, the result of wishful thinking and not paying enough attention to what it actually says in the codex. Biomorphs change the actual statline, whereas bonuses from psychic powers do not.

You can get better saves than 2+ in WHFB though.

Lukus83 wrote:Then your friend was cheating.

Only if he knew the BRB rules regarding it, or they showed him the BRB rules regarding it, and he still insisted as such. I see no need to call a GW store.

Cheese Elemental wrote:You can get better saves than 2+ in WHFB though.

Save modifiers are easy to come by in whfb. So you may have a 1+ save but if you're getting hit with stuff that's -1, -2 or better then you're still having to roll saves.

40K has no (attacking) save modifiers so a 1+ save would be auto-pass against everything other than AP1 and armour ignoring stuff.

Scott-S6 wrote:
Save modifiers are easy to come by in whfb. So you may have a 1+ save but if you're getting hit with stuff that's -1, -2 or better then you're still having to roll saves.

40K has no (attacking) save modifiers so a 1+ save would be auto-pass against everything other than AP1 and armour ignoring stuff.

Even in WHFB (as in 40k), a roll of 1 is always a failure. If your Khorne lord on juggernaut with his 0+ armour save rolls a 1, he's hurt. The only purpose to that 0+ save is to still let him save on 2+ against weapons S5 or lower.

Scott-S6 wrote:40K has no (attacking) save modifiers so a 1+ save would be auto-pass against everything other than AP1 and armour ignoring stuff.

Markerlights? Cover saves are still saves.

Along those same lines, shooting a vehicle you're not quite sure is in cover will have its save modified by -1.

Lukus83 wrote:Then your friend was cheating.

Or simply confused.

It's possible for someone to be mistaken about the rules without it being a deliberate attempt to cheat.

True...I apologize for the quick assumption.