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I sure do.

That bit in Flash Gordon, where Ming offers him Earth and his hot daughter...

Stupid Flash...

I hate the ending of a movie where the girls shoots her boyfriend.

Me too

Off topic.I just saw third watch scene that irritates me a policewomen shoots the guy.The woman is quite irritating character,I wished that the criminal killed the woman.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:That bit in Flash Gordon, where Ming offers him Earth and his hot daughter...

Stupid Flash...

Oh, like Dale wasn't hot? Plus, he was a quarterback for the Jets, probably not the brightest bulb to begin with.

Back to OT...

I don't mind the good guy winning as long as he suffers along the way. I hate when they succeed and get away clean, as it were.

I also experienced a moment of 'aha this is what is it to be an adult man' when, as a youth, I was watching 'Legend' and the princess got all gothic and evil. In fact I retain extreme weakness for girls wearing black lipstick to this day.

Ahhh yeah....

I hate to break it to you, but that was David Bowie in drag.

avantgarde wrote:I hate to break it to you, but that was David Bowie in drag.

That was labyrinth, although that gave me a boner as well... "Play with my crystal balls Sarah!"... mmmmmm

I like it when good guys win.

It depends, sometimes the bad guys are just far better characters than the good guys...

I like to see the bad guys win if the good guys are dumb and whiny morons. Besides, the bad guys in Hollywood fiction are usually more intelligent and civilised anyway... In fact, in hollywood fiction, good vs. evil is analogous to Jocks & blonde Cheerleaders vs. Nerds with style and henchmen/women (and those women would be brunettes).

I guess a lot of gamers (Table top and RPG) will root for the bad guys because the good guys are dumb and whiny jocks and airheaded cheerleaders.

I especially like to see heroes die if they keep on complaining about them being the hero/chosen/messiah rather than just get on with it.

And girls and sidekicks who go snooping and sneaking around by themselves despite other character's caution deserve the inevitable fate they suffer...

I think "bad guys" typically have more character. It annoys me that they're given really dissproportionate, unrealistic (when considering the other aspects of the character) weaknesses. I'd rather things just play out "like they really would."

I recently watched the V original mini-series. Sure the good guys won but for very good reasons.

The main bad-guy, Diana (played by super sexy 80's chick Jane Badler) slept her way to 2nd in command was repeatedly incompetent but any time a rival began to gain ground on her she would have them eliminated in some way and finally took overall charge of the show (and failed). From a story telling stand-point I thought it was fantastic because she was NOT the right alien for the job but her ambition outweighed her competence and Earth was saved. As cheesy as that old mini-series is in parts, the main baddie (Diana) was well conceived. Good thing she stayed in charge .




Note: The new V is meh.

Stick to George Romero movies. In most of them, the Zombies win.

warpcrafter wrote:Stick to George Romero movies. In most of them, the Zombies win.

Well played, Sir!

How about posthumous wins like Leonardo DiCaprio in "The Departed"? Its a loss and a win at the same time.

And then you have Quentin Tarantino's infamous shades of grey characters; most of his movies imo don't really have a traditional good guy.

Well evil wins enough in real life, why not let their be hope?

That's fine, let's just make it realistic hope. I don't want heros winning to be a foregone conclusion, I wanna see the guy who has all the odds against him take the time to train and prepare then legitimately slaughter everyone. It sucks when "the power of friendship/love/loyalty/good/light" steps in at the last minute to save the incompetent bastard from getting what's coming to him.

Wutsup with having a good guy, with all the good guy movie powers and stuff, turn bad. That way, as long as no one defecates on the concept, the good guy gone bad, will win the movie, and destroy the day.

The idea of any bad guy besides Dr. Evil winning a movie is just depressing to me though...

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:That's fine, let's just make it realistic hope. I don't want heros winning to be a foregone conclusion, I wanna see the guy who has all the odds against him take the time to train and prepare then legitimately slaughter everyone. It sucks when "the power of friendship/love/loyalty/good/light" steps in at the last minute to save the incompetent bastard from getting what's coming to him.

I think this is okay when not presented in a Deus Ex Machina kind of way. When it is part of the Hero's strengths and not the Heavy's and works for the story, it is fine. The difference, I feel, is subtle but important. Take the cavalry arriving to save the day (the most cliche' of all Dues Ex Machinas!) If the hero was intentionally trying to reach or notify the cavalry as part of the story then it is okay as opposed to the cavalry just sort of, showing up.

Wrexasaur wrote:Wutsup with having a good guy, with all the good guy movie powers and stuff, turn bad. That way, as long as no one defecates on the concept, the good guy gone bad, will win the movie, and destroy the day.

The idea of any bad guy besides Dr. Evil winning a movie is just depressing to me though...

Well, I think the whole idea of the concept of the "good-guy" arch-type is that his values and morals (regardless of what they may be) are unassailable despite the pain he may endure within the story. I agree that when the "good-guy" arch-type sacrifices his fundamental values, it is generally not a good thing unless the toll he pays is very high. Some very good stories do exist using this concept.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote: It sucks when "the power of friendship/love/loyalty/good/light" steps in at the last minute to save the incompetent bastard from getting what's coming to him.

+1

I like it when the guy who is bad is actually good a going for justice. Like A family member of the deceased got for street justice. Kind like i know what you did last summer.

GoFenris wrote:I agree that when the "good-guy" arch-type sacrifices his fundamental values, it is generally not a good thing unless the toll he pays is very high. Some very good stories do exist using this concept.

I've always found it far more interesting when the hero suffers because he refuses to deviate from his sense of morality. Its never been my experience that personal reward comes to uncompromising individuals.

I also like the idea of a dirty, rotten bastard sort of anti-hero getting away with everything he wants, while also saving the day. Though I don't know of too many works which play the concept straight.

The character arc of Anakin Skywalker is interesting in this respect - he starts as an innocent child...and ends as the ultimate bad-guy.

Albatross wrote:The character arc of Anakin Skywalker is interesting in this respect - he starts as an innocent child...and ends as the ultimate bad-guy.

Darth Vader was way more sympathetic when nobody knew his origins.

Yeah, he is trying to save his wife so he kills her. Real scary dude :p And an excellent reason to become evil? He just confuses me.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Yeah, he is trying to save his wife so he kills her. Real scary dude :p And an excellent reason to become evil? He just confuses me.

Vader is a classic "tragic" villian,fueled by loss ,anger and fear and manipulated by Palpatine.
Much like Frankenstiens monster,Vader can almost be forgiven the "evil" he perpatrates.

And as far as my feelings concerning good guys winning....I'm with Warpcrafter,the zombies always win.

dogma wrote:

GoFenris wrote:I agree that when the "good-guy" arch-type sacrifices his fundamental values, it is generally not a good thing unless the toll he pays is very high. Some very good stories do exist using this concept.

I've always found it far more interesting when the hero suffers because he refuses to deviate from his sense of morality. Its never been my experience that personal reward comes to uncompromising individuals.

I also like the idea of a dirty, rotten bastard sort of anti-hero getting away with everything he wants, while also saving the day. Though I don't know of too many works which play the concept straight.

Yes. But the Protagonist should always suffer regardless or else no one will care when he/she finally triumphs. Well, care as much.

Hmm, Max Rockatanski maybe (in the second two films)? He was always dealing with forces greater than him but he was pretty unscrupulous. Maybe Grendel in John Gardner's book? Yeah, that is a tough one. Not too many that are flat out uncaring and uncompromising (at least in my limited scope) and even Grendel died.

I like when the evil empire bad guys win, and they have to be human or close to it.

otherwise go good guys.

I don't really care who wins, to be perfectly honest. The winner, if there is one, should flow out of the themes of the movie.

Look at a film like The Usual Suspects. Verbal didn't win because he was the bad guy, he won because the film was all about bluffing, and telling people what they want to hear - and throughout the whole film he was telling Chazz Palminteri's character exactly what he wanted to hear. It worked because the resolution fit perfectly with the rest of the movie, not because the winner was a baddie.