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1849/1850

--HQ-- 158

1 Shas'El
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-HW Multi-tracker
-Bonding Knife
-HW Drone Controller
--Marker Drone
--Marker Drone
-Positional Relay


--Elite-- 596

3 Crisis Suits
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Team Leader
--HW Drone Controller
---Marker Drone
---Marker Drone

2 Crisis Suits
-Plasma Rifle
-Missile Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Team Leader
--HW Drone Controller
---Marker Drone
---Marker Drone


2 Crisis Suits
-TL Flamers
-Shield Generators

--Heavy Support-- 425

1 Hammerhead
-Railgun
-Multi-tracker
-Disruption Pod
-Burst Cannons
-Blacksun Filter

1 Hammerhead
-Railgun
-Multi-tracker
-Disruption Pod
-Burst Cannons
-Blacksun Filter

1 Broadside Battlesuit
-Advanced Stabilization
-Team Leader
--HW Drone Controller
--Shield Drone
--Shield Drone


--Fast Attack-- 366

2 Piranha
-Fusion Blasters
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pods

8 Pathfinders

1 Devilfish
-Multi-tracker
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod
-SMART Missiles

--Troops-- 367

16 Kroot

12 Fire Warriors
-Shas'ui
--Bonding Knife

1 Devilfish
-Multi-tracker
-Disruption Pod
-Targeting Array
-SMART Missiles

This is a list I built for an upcoming tournament at my FLGS. It's heavy on fireknives and marker lights and light on troop choices, I know, but it has a nice range of anti-everything: 3 railguns for heavy ranged anti-vehicle support and two fusion blasters for close-range AV, 6 fireknives for ranged anti-infantry/light AV, 2 deep-striking flamers for close-range anti-infantry and marker lights galore. thoughts/comments/concerns appreciated.

DP on a Piranha are kind of moot, really, since you will be either moving fast or within 12" of something nasty.

You. Need. More. Troops. This isn't a matter of firepower, it is a matter of 5th edition and 2/3 of missions being objective based. Split the FW into two squads and give them both devilfishies.

TL flamer and a shield generator makes absolutely no sense unless you are worried about power weapons in close combat. Well, a 4+ invlun is not something I want to depend on, especially since most power weapon toting dudes are going to wreck you regardless. Put a MP on them instead, save yourself 8 points each, and enjoy two turns of popping transports (AV 11) while you dodge from cover to cover to get into position.

Drop the SMS and TA from your devilfishies. If you are going to bring a troop light list, you need to keep them out of sight and away from nasties, not shooting things. Keep one in reserve (the one without the Pathfinders associated with it) using the positional relay and bring it on last minute to snag/contest on objective.

Pathfinders don't really need the Devilfish. Make sure they are in some kind of cover with a clear view from turn 1 and use their DF for your second squad of 6.

Kroot Hounds will be a nice addition to that list. The I5 not only helps get the drop on most enemies, but it helps with the inevitable roll-off at the end of combat.

Just my 2c, good luck with the tourney.

I realize this still works but i thought i would point it out to make sure there is no confusion. On your Shas'El you cannot have both a multi tracker and a positional relay, as they are both support systems and you already have two weapons. You have to take the Pos relay as the support system and HW the multi tracker.

*sigh*

I know that the Fireknife configuration is a popular thing to put on suits, but in all honesty, it is the least effective suit configuration. It gives you long range light vehicle killing power and short range terminator killing power, tries to make you a jack of all trades and succeeds only in making those units have no purpose at all.

If you want plasma on suits, make them close range death dealers. Fusion+Plasma (Helios) or some combination of twin-linked plasma and plasma+fusion for wound allocation; make your missile pod suits deathrain (twin-linked missile pods) to ensure that they get their hits in with rerolls in case you miss....

The key to a good Tau army is tactics. Every unit needs to serve a purpose in the army, and that purpose needs to complement or provide redundancy for other units. Fireknife suits fit between the utility of other suit combinations; while they fill an elite choice, they aren't customized to make your list better, nor your army better performing.

Dashofpepper wrote:*sigh*

I know that the Fireknife configuration is a popular thing to put on suits, but in all honesty, it is the least effective suit configuration. It gives you long range light vehicle killing power and short range terminator killing power, tries to make you a jack of all trades and succeeds only in making those units have no purpose at all.

If you want plasma on suits, make them close range death dealers. Fusion+Plasma (Helios) or some combination of twin-linked plasma and plasma+fusion for wound allocation; make your missile pod suits deathrain (twin-linked missile pods) to ensure that they get their hits in with rerolls in case you miss....

Missile/plasma suits (that's what they are. made up names are silly and only help to confuse everyone else) are effective because they scale the best with markerlight support, which any serious tau army should be providing for them. They may not look impressive at first when you weigh them against fusion/plasma suits shot for shot, but consider that they've got twice the range,

How useful are your fusion suits against a SW cavalry army, for instance? Not very I bet. You get a round to shoot, then they're on you because your effective range is 12". Woo. Best use of a 180pt squad ever.

Missile/plasma are not the best at killing marines, but they're only 33% less effective at it than fusion, at twice the range. So in order to match effectiveness, the M/P team only has to fire one more shooting phase than the other suits. Which they will, thanks to that whole double-your-range deal. It's pretty sweet, you should try it.

Missile/plasma are not the best at killing tough vehicles, but neither are fusion suits. Sup railguns.

Missile/plasma suits generate the same average number of penetrating hits on rhinos as TL missile pod suits with a slight range disadvantage, but scale with markerlights better.

Missile/plasma suits are not the best at killing light infantry, but they're miles better than missile/fusion suits, at twice the range.

Did I mention the range? Because that's a pretty big perk.

The key to a good Tau army is tactics. Every unit needs to serve a purpose in the army, and that purpose needs to complement or provide redundancy for other units. Fireknife suits fit between the utility of other suit combinations; while they fill an elite choice, they aren't customized to make your list better, nor your army better performing.

Tau are one of the armies that does very well by taking generalists - like missile/plasma suits. This bit you've written here also seems kind of contradictory, because they're a very solid choice from a tactical perspective. Transports? We can do that. Marines? We can do that. Monstrous creatures? Can do that too. Infantry? You betcha. They're not just dual purpose, they're all purpose, which gives you a solid core of firepower you can lean on vs any army you might come up against.

Taking a list full of specialists works for some armies. Tau aren't one of them. Taking too many hammers and leaving your anvil at home won't end well for you.

Overall, my opinion on suits is that the only reason you should ever take a different configuration is if it's cheaper by a large margin. Fusion/plasma suits are the same price and not nearly as good. I'm honestly surprised that you run these at all since you're so pro-gunline, which benefits greatly from long ranged suits.

Edit to add:

I understand the idea of not taking different guns in the same unit, but it's not like this is a case of flamer and lascannon. MPs and PRs are close enough in function that they can fire at the same targets almost 100% of the time and still be effective.

grankobot wrote:

I understand the idea of not taking different guns in the same unit, but it's not like this is a case of flamer and lascannon. MPs and PRs are close enough in function that they can fire at the same targets almost 100% of the time and still be effective.

Especially in a tourney setting.

When I play a gunline, my suits are mobile. As much as possible, my sniper drones, fire warriors, and broadsides are static, but my suits skip around wreaking things.

MPs and PRs may share a few similarities (in that they are both medium range, medium strength weapons), but the similarities end there. There's a lot of difference between AP2 and AP4, and I neither want to waste AP2 shots on vehicles, or bother shooting STR7 AP4 weapons at MEQs when I have so much STR6 AP3, STR6AP2, and STR8 AP1 floating around.

If you find the Fireknife configuration working for you, roll with it. In every army I play, every unit has a specialized function, and I firmly believe it contributes significantly to my ability to adapt to whatever scenario and army I face on the table.

Dashofpepper wrote:*sigh*

I know that the Fireknife configuration is a popular thing to put on suits, but in all honesty, it is the least effective suit configuration. It gives you long range light vehicle killing power and short range terminator killing power, tries to make you a jack of all trades and succeeds only in making those units have no purpose at all.

If you want plasma on suits, make them close range death dealers. Fusion+Plasma (Helios) or some combination of twin-linked plasma and plasma+fusion for wound allocation; make your missile pod suits deathrain (twin-linked missile pods) to ensure that they get their hits in with rerolls in case you miss....

The key to a good Tau army is tactics. Every unit needs to serve a purpose in the army, and that purpose needs to complement or provide redundancy for other units. Fireknife suits fit between the utility of other suit combinations; while they fill an elite choice, they aren't customized to make your list better, nor your army better performing.

The reason why the fireknife config works is the range at which you can still get things done. Sure its only 1 shot per plasma at 24, but you can do this and stay outside assault range. This is also true with missle pods I can get that 2 str 7 attacks at 30" Thats 3 instant death shots for T3 at 24 inches per suit. Not giving assault too. I love it personally. Thats why I use them. If i get within 12 inches, for the fusion blasters, i usually only get 1 turn of shooting if enemy is at that range. Trust me it is not wise. Now if you have a gun drone wall infront of them thats different, However you are giving up 2 str 7 shots at 30 inches which gives you 5 turns of shooting as to 2 to 3 turns if your 12 inches away and the whole time you have to be screened by gun drones. ITs just not going to happen. Dont try to tell me you will kill the whole unit either, because you wont.