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Hundreds of childrens' lives destroyed by paedophile priests with the full knowledge of officials in the Catholic Church. The report published in Ireland yesterday will enrage you: priests shared abuse victims between each other; high church officials relocated paedophile priests knowing that they were likely to abuse more children. When they did, the paedophile priest was merely moved again. This is a sickening report. The Garda (police) refused to investigate the abuse because the priests were seen as above the law. From the Irish Times:

The commission investigated the handling of allegations made against a sample out of 46 priests out of 102 against whom complaints were made between 1975 and 2004.

Among its other main findings were:

All archbishops and many of the auxiliary bishops in Dublin handled child sexual abuse complaints badly. None of the four archbishops reported their knowledge of abuse to gardaí “throughout the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s”.

Church authorities used the concept of “mental reservation”, which allows senior clergy to mislead people without being guilty, in the church’s eyes, of lying.

:: One priest admitted sexually abusing more than 100 children;

:: Another accepted he abused on a fortnightly basis during his 25-year ministry;

:: One complaint was made against a priest who later admitted abusing at least six other children;

:: It took gardaí 20 years to decide on a prosecution of one priest.




The vatican refused to cooperate with this three year long investigation.

Oh this will be a fun thread to watch...

State and religion should never be intertwined as it puts forward a skewed view on morality, as demonstrated above.

Best way to go about it is for them to see religion as a business then hunt those paedophiles down with sharp erasers.

I could start hammering away with jokes at this stage, but i rather not get banned for them lol.

I have a feeling this thread will be destroyed pretty quickly.

I can't imagine THIS thread going badly at all...

JD21290 wrote:I could start hammering away with jokes at this stage, but i rather not get banned for them lol.

I have a feeling this thread will be destroyed pretty quickly.

I am resisting so hard to not make any jokes that my pores are bleeding...

Jimi, tell you what, we will give it an hour, if its still here and stable we will start with a single joke each, then 2 each and so on

1st one to end up locking the thread wins


PS: Would the MOD that locks this please let us know who won?

Because rape and child abuse is funny

Someone get a stake, I'll get the kindling.

The Catholic church in ireland has too many skellies in the closet of this variety. however Carholism elsewhere is far less prone to such abuses. In Ireland it is difficult to critique the church, even now.

I have met one victim who came to our writers circle for a talk a couple of years back, she said that victims could only get compensation if they signed an NDA and were hounded by the Irish government for one, not so much the church. It's a secret that is long under wraps, which causes the rot to fester.

I spoke to her about my family background with my suster and my mothers time under the care of the Catholic church in Stafford. She expected to hear another abuse story, and made comment as such, but in fact what I had to say was that my family were taken care of. My mother had a messy divorce from a very brutal husband back in the day when divorces were rare. Without anywhere to go and no means to educate my sister my mother turned to the convent where she was educated. They accepted by sister without a further word and looked after her.

I know of many otyhers with a convent eduucation around the same time periods and after, no signs of abuse anywhere, planty of evidence of decent care and faithful ministry. It is poinient to note that my family were and are not Catholcis either. Sectarismism, not the slightest glimmer.

Here in England it is more difficult - though certainly not impossible as reports have shown - for abuse to flourish. I know this is the case in most other European countries.

The abuse rife church is limited to Irish catholicism, in Ireland and elsewhere and some parts of South America. In general in those areas where Catholicism is above the law by popular tradition. Even so in those areas the majority are not corrupted.

It is long time for the abuses to be exposed and stop, but 'catholicism' as and of itself is not to blame. I am also prepared to believe that a clear up is part of the agenda of the current Pope, its a matter of exposing what is hidden not only to the outside world, but also to the majority of the catholic community worldwide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An addendum for all those above who posted 'in before lock' style posts.

here on Dakka we CAN discuss religion (and politics) from widely different viewpoints without trolling. Please join in the discussion or stay out, dont naysay though, it doesnt help. Suee on a lot of forums such threads might only last half a page, but experience proves otherwise here. We have theists, atheists and others who can string an intelligent post together and read same without getting upset. Please give us some credit, or at least some room.
Many if not most relgion threads here last several pages of informed arguement back and forth without trolling and without a thread lock. Look back, the evidence is here, threads I refer to are still open for you to read - though preferably not to necro.

I will be hoping and expecting the mods to delete the comments from any trolls who turn up without blocking the duiscussion that ensues.

The Catholic Church in the US isn't doing much better. At least one archdioceses and several dioceses have had to declare bankruptcy to protect them from lawsuits brought by victims of abuse. (That's Archdiocese Portland, and Diocese including Wilmington, Davenport, San Diego, Tuscon, Spokane, Fairbanks, and others)

Child abuse is endemic to the Catholic church, and yet most Catholics seem to turn a blind eye to it. I simply don't understand. If I had been Catholic, I'd have left the church after finding out how widespread the problem is.

I believe I saw a south park on this very issue In all truth though I far from condone what these men have done, and strongly believe in hangings I feel that to a certain point the church itself pushed them into their sick and twisted sexual desires.

For a long time not allowing priests to marry in all honesty goes against gods own beliefs of going forth and multiplying, as such they are forced to submerge their sexual desires and taught it is a sin to at least indulge on their own selfs to satisfy these feelings. Any shrink will tell you repressing our most basic of emotions will begin to distort those feelings and as such screw up the persons head.

Now I am sure this offends a bunch of you out their and to that effect well I am just stating an opinon on the topic at hand, and in my own feel the church has bread this sick and twisted action and by not moving forward in certain thinkings they have condoned(not sure if I spelled that right) the actions of these priests. I mean honestly when was the last time anyone heard of a Prodestant, or Baptist minister touching children..... no idea huh because im not saying it hasnt happened, but it has been soooooo infrequent over the century's because of the family ideals and allowing these men and women to marry. Only recently did I see on CNN that the Catholic church was allowing women to take more of a role as priests instead of just nuns.

I think you will find a recurring pattern, some parts of the Catholic church are rife with paedos, others are free of them. I did mention some communities in the US as problem areas. Normally those with Irish rather than Italian cultural origin, though the rot has spread a little in the melting pot.

Here in England the Catholic church is child safe for purposes of boarding schools and other activities that are high risk from your experiences. Had I any kids I would trust them to the same convent that educated and cared for my mother and sister without worries.

The major difference is that a paedo English catholic priest wont get away with it, then and now. even before PC the police would act and the state would not whitewash. Those paedo scandals we have had are due to social work incompetence and well covered up rings.

It would be no easier for a paedo priest in France or Germany, Catholicism isn't above the law their either, so the abuse culture cannot develop easily. There will always be exceptions but those are individuals, not a culture of abuse.

Many of the finest priests in the Catholic church are Irish, and a good many of them get out of Ireland to minister. I wonder if there is a connection.

I am by no means singling out the irish especially here in the states. I just was saying as a whole.

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=151078368

Mate, what has gone on is an absolute and utter disgrace. The government helped?!!

It turns my stomach. How ANYONE can defend a paedo beggars belief, even if you were brainwashed from a young age. Ireland will end up a theocracy like Iran unless some large changes are made. And abortion is still illegal. Its 2009 ffs.

Anyway, the reason people are saying humorous things, is not cos its a funny topic. Its because Dakka is an American website, and you know, they dont like it when you criticize religion.

You can criticize Politicians, Peoples taste in clothes or music, and comment about how ugly peoples faces are, but point out what is an obvious truth, an astoundingly obvious truth, that Organised Religion has a habit of causing otherwise good people, to do terrible things and your thread will be locked faster than you can say "INFIDEL"

And yes, the Earth is older than 6000 years. It is a proven fact. And evolution is not "just a theory".

Anyway, glad i got that off my chest! I agree with your revulsion. Shame on the swines that did this, but your thread aint gonna last past 1700hours!

The problem is in the states we do have do "tip toe" if you will around religous conversation as it is a huge strong point to many. Personally I am devoutly religous, but I also believe in science heavily. I can't remember who the scientist was who said "the more I study the universe the more I can not not believe their is a higher power" or something along those lines. The problem is our country has developed into a bunch of either right wing or left wing nut jobs who in the end are pretty damn much the same. Those of us in the grey area or middle such as I am are forced to not follow through with our freedom of speech as for fear of law suits till next tuesday.Even though America is the land of the free and we are far better off then a lot of nations the fact is we care more on handling the rest of the worlds problems then our own. At least our leadership does, and sadly yes their have been tons of these child molestation cases amongst the church out here, and cover up's galor, but the problem is our laws followed to the point in court that you could end up screwing yourself over beccause your lawyer didnt read the fine print. I know it's confusing to understand what I am implying, but really it's confusing overall.

mattyrm wrote:http://news.uk.msn.com/world/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=151078368

Mate, what has gone on is an absolute and utter disgrace. The government helped?!!

It turns my stomach. How ANYONE can defend a paedo beggars belief, even if you were brainwashed from a young age. Ireland will end up a theocracy like Iran unless some large changes are made. And abortion is still illegal. Its 2009 ffs.

This looks directed at me. obviously you havent read the post at all though, just skimmed it and then got upset. Try (re)reading it please, you seen to be violently agreeing.

mattyrm wrote:
And yes, the Earth is older than 6000 years. It is a proven fact. And evolution is not "just a theory".

What has this got to do with it.

mattyrm wrote:
but your thread aint gonna last past 1700hours!

It should be ok, noone has to troll, and no mod has to lock when they can selectively target the guilty.

JD21290 wrote:Jimi, tell you what, we will give it an hour, if its still here and stable we will start with a single joke each, then 2 each and so on

1st one to end up locking the thread wins


PS: Would the MOD that locks this please let us know who won?

You know you guys need to report these threads.
If we kept to Orlanth level then yes its a thread to discuss, and when I read his I went to edit my own to keep open. Then I read the posts after and realized, yep this ones going to flamewar. WTF does evolution have to do with this? Slamming the entire C Church ebcause of this is also bad form.

I am shutting it down. I could see this one as attacking the entire C Church. Personally I hope the priests that covered this up and the ones that did it, are dealt withand have a special place in hell waiting for them. But this is not all Catholics or all priests so shutting down. Closing to avoid a flame war.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK reopening after vociferous request by Orlanth and Da Boss. Batter up but if this turns into a free ranging Catholics (or other people of faith or atheists) are evil and/or stupid I'm shutting it back down. Here's your chance to prove me wrong peoples.

mattyrm wrote:
You can criticize Politicians, Peoples taste in clothes or music, and comment about how ugly peoples faces are, but point out what is an obvious truth, an astoundingly obvious truth, that Organised Religion has a habit of causing otherwise good people, to do terrible things and your thread will be locked faster than you can say "INFIDEL"

Politics, economics, nationalism, and many other things all have similar 'habits'. Should we sit around a campfire and accost those things as well?

I mean, its pretty clear to me that the real thorn in humanity's side is the 'family'. People that develop 'bonds' with their 'genetic relations' are a scourge upon this earth who impede the fair distribution of resources based on merit.

mattyrm wrote:
And yes, the Earth is older than 6000 years. It is a proven fact. And evolution is not "just a theory".

Evolution is just a theory. The problem is that most people have a deep misunderstanding of the term 'theory' as it applies to science.

olympia wrote:
:: One priest admitted sexually abusing more than 100 children;

Great scott thats disgusting. Hopefully the Catholic Church didn't put that one back in service.

Jimi Nemesis wrote:I am resisting so hard to not make any jokes that my pores are bleeding...

That's going in my sig! How is this thread not locked yet? The real-world inquisition must be on vacation. Or too busy hunting down Dan Brown.

All this jumping around about the Catholic Church, you do know about the rate of child sex abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses, right guys?

When I was working in the SS, we had several rings of paedophiles uncovered who had joined the JWs, because of the way in which JWs don't trust external things like the police, the social services, the school authority etc and instead govern all aspects from inside the community via 'Elders', several of whom were themselves child molesters. The traditional stance as ordained by the watchtower is that if an allegation is made by a child, that it's best for the family to try to work it out themselves over the course of several weeks before the elder should take any further action...

Quite terrible things are going on, even when the reports are made by children to elders, the elders simply submit the reports back to the watchtower. The Governing Body of Elders is reputed to hold a database with the largest list of unreported child sex attack allegations in the world.

This mentions the database:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silentlambs

Churches are particularly choice targets for pedophiles due to the kids. We have serious back ground tests and procedures for any volunteers with children. We also will exclude people who check out but don't feel right.

We don't let damnyankees in either, but thats a whole different issue.

Frazzled wrote:Churches are particularly choice targets for pedophiles due to the kids. We have serious back ground tests and procedures for any volunteers with children. We also will exclude people who check out but don't feel right.

We don't let damnyankees in either, but thats a whole different issue.

See, that's why certain churches/denominations are going to be lower risk, the open style and freedom of expression seen in a modern baptist church for example, or methodist, would be extremely difficult for a predatory paedophile to operate in, since they rely on being left alone with children in a religion that teaches silence and ingrains guilt and a sense of sin. JWs and Catholic backdrop is based around absolute authority of the elder or priest as the living word. Much emphasis in those faiths is built around suppression and obedience and silence.

Your average, open, lively church that encourages interaction and community is far less likely to be targeted and far more difficult for a sexual predator to commit crimes in.

Paedophiles do try to gravitate towards certain professions and vocations because it makes grooming easier, honest people who happen to share those professions share our disgust.

Perverts and other social predators also flourish in closed communities. Cults as mentioned above - it goes furtgher than the JW's, some minorities are also prone - especially ones where underage marriage is not a taboo. This is dealt with on a case by case basis and not tolerated but the statistics are firmly swept under the carpet to avoid inciting race tensions. This is very understandable and is not a whitewash because authorities will punish the guilty when they find them.

As far as im concerened, any organization that would hide, help, or ignore a child molester should be delt with as harshly as the offender when caught. Church, government, cult what ever. Make them pay for their inaction or actions weather it was turning a blind eye or defending the Pedi.

mattyrm wrote:

Anyway, the reason people are saying humorous things, is not cos its a funny topic. Its because Dakka is an American website, and you know, they dont like it when you criticize religion.

It's more like we've developed a gallows humor about the subject. It's so tragic you
make jokes to deal with it.

It is also because, while acting like this is BIG NEWS, it has been in the news for at least over a decade. This has been talked about a lot already and nothing said here has not already been said before.

Hawkins wrote:As far as im concerened, any organization that would hide, help, or ignore a child molester should be delt with as harshly as the offender when caught. Church, government, cult what ever. Make them pay for their inaction or actions weather it was turning a blind eye or defending the Pedi.

'Nice' sounding sentiment, but very dangerous if unchecked. How do you prove culpability, and where does the trail end? This is how tyranny starts, looking for the undesirables in a section of the community, and labeling whole sections as part of a great evil. we are seeing some of this earlier on the thread. If peadophiles can be hated and Catholics are paedophiles, thus Catholics can be hated.
Its difficult to clean up organisations, and dangerous to label them, this is the primary reason and is potentially one of the few things worse than child molestors because we have seen exactly where the hates lead in our history books, and on the TV new today.

Three quick thoughts:

1) It sounds obvious, but when you label all kinds of sex as bad, except sex between married couples, and then elminate that as an option... well, you're not going to have a lot of recruits that are all about male/female intercourse. It's an open secret that many of the seminarians are either gay, asexual, not overly sexual, or have less savory desires. When you eliminate those men for whom regular sex with women is important, you end up with a pretty skewed sample.

2) The way the Catholic Church handled these scandals was a shame, and it deeply saddens me that my Church would act in this way. I'd like to remind everybody, that the Church is merely the richest backer of paedophiles, not the biggest supplier. More kids are molested by close family members than by anything else. We hear about the Priests, but not the uncles. And we should, of course. it's just important to keep perspective.

3) While the victims no doubt deserve their money, it's not like the cash used to pay these settlements is coming out of the pockets of the rich priests. The Catholic Church has a pretty admirable track record of charitable giving, especially with regards to education.