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http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/27/31737

Gaming website BoardGamegeek has also received a Cease & Desist letter from Games Workshop that has required them to remove fan submitted photos and files from many, if not all, of the game pages for GW products. BGG member Peter Gifford, from the Headless Hollow site, has made a list of the various games that have had his files removed.

The BGG owners have released full details of the contents of their letter from GW but have confirmed that they are indeed removing files and locking the pages to prevent further updates.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/27/31737

No comment, I am speechless for the moment.

Here we go again,LOL.

This is not just excessive, it's rabid, bloodthirsty assault on their fans. I dare the apologists to explain this one away!!!

They already kinda have, IIRC. "GW is protecting it's IP, if you don't like it don't buy it."

I wonder what's next.

Who knows, everything is fair game now. Lexicanum is one potential target, as are CMON, Wikipedia and countless other sites.

In my view it is a somewhat grey area.

I can see two justifications for having the scans.

1. To replace worn parts such as cards in a set you own. This seems reasonable if the game is long OOP so that any examples available on eBay are likely to be worn. However GW are perfectly within their legal rights to ban it.

2. To be able to read rule systems for the purpose of study and research if you want to make your own rules. Of course it could be used as an excuse for copying entire games.

As there is customer demand for OOP games, it might be worth GW's while to publish them as PDFs.

well, looks like I'll be picking that tomb king army i wanted 2nd hand if at all... im joining Deadshane1 on his epic quest.

Wait, as I read the excerpt from the OP, I don't see how anybody can even be alarmed by the C&D from GW. GW asked that pictures and scans of its copyrighted materials be removed. That's common business practice.

What's strangest is that should they ever go back and redo those games that the card prints belonged to, they would redo them in a different way.

Nothing to be gained from this excessive and bullying action.

Again, I would ask fellow dakkites to stop buying GW minis. Show your protest at their tactics by denying them sales.

Shhhh!

So, Website allows IP Breaching Content to be hosted.

GW ask 'gonnae no dae that?'

Website throws toys from pram....

Interesting.

Seems heavy handed but I have got to say this.

If you are allowing scans of copyrighted material up on your website, whatever the reason, then you are leaving yourself open for this kind of action.

I'm not an apologist, just looking at the facts.

GW is sh*tting where they eat IMHO.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Again, I would ask fellow dakkites to stop buying GW minis. Show your protest at their tactics by denying them sales.

No, as GW has done nothing wrong.

Oh fun! real joy.

Ultra, maybe we are on a whole different page then mate.
GW is killing off its fanbase in an attempt to somehow gain from it.


So, ive heard alot of good things about warmachine, anyone got any info on it they can PM me?

MGS: im with you on this one.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Shhhh!

So, Website allows IP Breaching Content to be hosted.

GW ask 'gonnae no dae that?'

Website throws toys from pram....

Interesting.

Ancient out of production card printoffs for dead games...

Your capacity for GW apology is freaking insane. If they start eating babies, will you magically appear on this forum to start touting the nutritional benefits of infant cannibalism?

Really, you apologists are so bought into The Product you have no bloody opinion of your own other than 'GW is right, we're not sure about what, but they're always right'.

Now lets hear the 'it's big business pal, that's what big businesses do!'... Except that isn't what big businesses do, REAL big business has a concern about it's PR and a vested interest in not stirring up its customer base's ire, real big business would seek smarter paths that the C&D sledgehammer. They'd seek to get some free advertising, they'd get a clearly stated couple of paragraphs stating that
...'the website owners clearly acknowledge GWs ownership of this material and have been kindly allowed, at GWs discretion, to reproduce this work here with the understanding that they in no way challenge GWs ownership of the Intellectual Property herein.'

How bloody difficult would it be to get that drafted up? A standard template for sites to employ, allowing them to provide a not-for-profit service to fans of defunct games whilst clearly and openly REINFORCING GWs ownership and acknowledging what nice people GW had been for allowing it in the first place. It would have been a PR trump, GW could have crowed about how benevolent they were being, instead they put on the jackboots and went kicking down doors.

What you apologists cant bloody deny is that whatever the stance may be on GW having the RIGHT to behave like this, they sure as hell should NOT have behaved like this. Their PR and Legal management should be brought into a dark room and beaten shitless for the chronic lack of foresight and the terrible (further) damage to their image in their customer base. When I see talk about the real multinationals, the big companies, they just don't pull gak like this because it would be all over the press, they find easier paths and that's something GW should have done, sought a path of least resistance instead of a path of least effort.

Maybe we should have a poll to determine what percentage of people are ready to support Games Workshop in this. Ooh, I know, we could have a little icon next to our nicks depending on whether or not we're pro- or anti-GW. And maybe some private forum areas, or concentration threads, for whatever side is the minority, so we can avoid costly confrontations. It'd be a lot of work, but really, work makes you free. I think. My German is a little rusty.

Truly, that would be a fine final solution to this issue. Or we could get over this sort of sectarian infighting and simply accept other posters aren't exact clones of us.

Oh suck my hairy balls MGS.

Don't you fething dare call me an apologist, as to do so, you are automatically assuming you are in the right, which in this case, you are not.

Regardless of how you feel, GW have a legal obligation to protect their IP. If they don't, they lose it.

And how else are they meant to go about it? Send a little fairy round with cupcakes for everyone? A C&D letter isn't that bad. It's saying 'stop breaking the rules, ok? Because if you don't, well have to resort to legal action'.

Seems like a soft approach, and one taken by pretty much every other company when protecting their IP. What makes GW so very different that when they do it it's evil..

YOu bring up in this case that it's about cards and stuff for games no longer in production. So how many people does this affect? Does this affect you? How so. If you have the game, you have the cards. When did you last spend money on that particular product direct from GW? Years? Then you aren't a customer for that game, thus nobody has been pissed off apart from a bunch of people on the Internet getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.

Belt up the lot of you.

Seems like a soft approach, and one taken by pretty much every other company when protecting their IP. What makes GW so very different that when they do it it's evil..

So, did the makers of the aliens films send GW a C&D letter?
You know, since they also have the right to protect thier IP.

Gay.

One month down (almost) one more month to go on my own personal boycott in order to make myself feel like I'm "helping my gaming brethren". Pffffttt to the rest of you apologists that dont have the balls to try to stand up to this corperation that needs your money but gives nothing but greif (well, and awesome models and games).

After that, core games only for me. (since I've got 4 Bloodbowl Teams and 5 Gothic Fleets) Core games only and I'm SERIOUSLY looking at FOW and Warmachine/Hordes.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Oh suck my hairy balls MGS.

Don't you fething dare call me an apologist, as to do so, you are automatically assuming you are in the right, which in this case, you are not.

See, this is what I meant by that little sarcastic post up there. This reckless, unseemly hatred that both sides of the issue have for their opponents. There are no "good guys" in this sad story. Games Workshop gets accused of sabotaging their own fanbase by people who resort to this kind of confrontation. It's you who's making the fanbase suffer, by making Dakkadakka and elsewhere become ever more septic, ever more cadaverous and inhospitable, just so you can win some "argument" that isn't worth the electrons it's transmitted with.

Deadshane1 wrote:Gay.

"Gay." That's your constructive retort to this issue? I wish I was homosexual so I could take outrageous amounts of offense at this.

JD21290 wrote:

Seems like a soft approach, and one taken by pretty much every other company when protecting their IP. What makes GW so very different that when they do it it's evil..

So, did the makers of the aliens films send GW a C&D letter?
You know, since they also have the right to protect thier IP.

No, but GW apparently saw off a court case about the Genestealer design, seeing as their are numerous differences in design (not least of which are 6 limbs and a short tail).

SO I ask, why do I have to defend my standpoint on this? Or is it just that you don't have the balls to contact GW, so you'd rather just have a pop at people anonymously.

Dok, you seem to like the sound of your own voice way too much.
I tend to find it funny that everytime people agree against something thats been done you are allways there to dive in and attack other people.
Maybe its for attention, or maybe you just like to annoy people, i wouldnt like to guess which it is.

As for your insults, your a grown man (well, possibly not in some cases) but you should be a tad more mature about it than resorting to name calling when people dont agree with you.

Now, if you excuse me, im off to get some blood out of that rock over there.

Why? Because I believe in defending your opinion, particularly when it's being rubbished amongst other similar opinions?

Why was I singled out? I've got a fair idea, but hey.

Dok, all we are doing is defending our opinions, yet you come along as say we are wrong about it (in which i would like to say an opinion cannot ever be wrong)

So, you can defend your opinion, but we cant?
Works both ways mate.
I have no problem with you stating your opinion, as everybody has the right to, i just dislike the way you seem to resort to insults rather than going through your opinions like everyone else does / has.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Gay.

"Gay." That's your constructive retort to this issue? I wish I was homosexual so I could take outrageous amounts of offense at this.

Yep, thats my constructive retort. Pretty much because its the least I can write to have proponents of GW come down on me. They dont deserve much more.

Bottom line is too many people dont have the guts to stop buying for two friggin months in an ATTEMPT to TRY and get this company to listen to its fanbase. Whether it would work or not. They dont wanna even try.

I dont wanna waste much more time putting thought to internet.

Gay.

If you took outrageous amounts of offense...that would be your problem not mine. I wouldnt be offended if someone called this entire scenario "Straight" so I wouldnt understand your anger.

Being singled out and called an apologist is rather insulting. Despite bordering on Godwins Law, normally people who deny the Holocaust etc, are correctly labelled apologists. I however, am not an apologist. I have not twisted facts, made up anything to support my stand point, or anything else shady.

As I said, GW have a legal obligation to protect their IP. Certain sites have been in breach of IP. So GW sent them a letter asking for them to stop it. As far as I have read, all have complied, and some have thrown a strop.

And again, various other posters have also stated GW have done nothing wrong or questionable, so why was I singled out?

Did I say you have no right to be pissed off? Nope. I just feel throwing the toys out the pram is pointless, as GW are acting well within their rights. The people trying to shout me down however have read into my posts things which simply aren't there, in a crap attempt to discredit my opinion.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Being singled out and called an apologist is rather insulting. Despite bordering on Godwins Law, normally people who deny the Holocaust etc, are correctly labelled apologists. I however, am not an apologist. I have not twisted facts, made up anything to support my stand point, or anything else shady.

As I said, GW have a legal obligation to protect their IP. Certain sites have been in breach of IP. So GW sent them a letter asking for them to stop it. As far as I have read, all have complied, and some have thrown a strop.

And again, various other posters have also stated GW have done nothing wrong or questionable, so why was I singled out?

Did I say you have no right to be pissed off? Nope. I just feel throwing the toys out the pram is pointless, as GW are acting well within their rights. The people trying to shout me down however have read into my posts things which simply aren't there, in a crap attempt to discredit my opinion.

You're insulted about being called an apologist.

....then say everyone else is "throwing toys" effectively calling everyone against this policy a "big baby"?

Don't dish it if you can't take it....apologist.

I'd go for "Don't dish it, period."

Time for this thread to be locked.