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Ok so Ard Boyz isn't that far away if you think about it (May). I am thinking I want to take Orks for the first round as it is what I have closest to viable at 2500.



Big Mek
-KFF, Eavy Armour
Big Mek
-Kff, Eavy Armour

Kommandos
-15, Snikrot

Boyz
-19, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour
Boyz
-19, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour
Boyz
-20, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy Armour, Trukk, BoardingPlank
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy Armour, Trukk, BoardingPlank
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy Armour, Trukk, BoardingPlank

Stormboyz
-20, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour
Stormboyz
-20, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour
Stormboyz
-20, Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armour

Battlewagon
-BigShoota
Battlewagon
-BigShoota
Battlewagon
-BigShoota


Its pretty straight forward, I should be able to start crashing into my enemy on 2nd turn, 3rd turn for sure. I know I will have some problems with Raiders but 2500 your viable options get blasted away to quickly or are to slow (killakans).

Wow looks scary!

I am throwing around the idea of trimming something and getting red paint on all the trukks/wagons.

I hope to start proxying a few things and maybe get a few test games in soon.

NO EAVY ARMOUR! it is not worth it, just drop it and get more boys, also only one squad in an ork army can be ard boyz. Snikrot kommandos have beastly when you give them burnas, 15 points well spent in my books. I would not take storm boyz, demote them to boyz and use the points you saved to buy them transport.

drop all the storm boys your wasting 285 points per squad. and use the points to upgrade your vehicles, reduce one of your boys squads in BW and put them in a trukk instead and get 15 burnas to ride with your big mek in the BW.

only one squad can be turned into 'ard boys
example modified list:

Big Mek
-KFF, Eavy Armour 90
Big Mek
-Kff, Eavy Armour 90

Kommandos
-15, Snikrot 235
Burnas
-15 225
Meganobz
-5, Battle wagon, 2 big shoota, boarding planks, RPJ, RR 310

Boyz
-19, Nob, PK, Bosspole 154
Boyz
-20, Nob, PK, Bosspole, 165
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Trukk, Boarding Plank, RPJ 157
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Trukk, Boarding Plank, RPJ 157
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Trukk, Boarding Plank, RPJ 157
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Trukk, Boarding Plank, RPJ 157

WarBikers
-9 nob, PK, BP 190


Battlewagon
-2 BigShoota, RPJ, RR 105
Battlewagon
-2 BigShoota, RPJ, RR, boarding plank 110
Battlewagon
-2 BigShoota, RPJ, RR, boarding plank 110


thats a total of 2497 pts

I'm 99% certain that the 'Eavy armor listed is wargear on the nob, not the unit being 'Ard Boyz. A few things I'd like to offer for the OP, mostly because I like abusing other people.

1. 'Eavy armor is....an interesting upgrade for a nob. I've gone both ways (with and without) often enough and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. Are you putting 'Eavy armor on your nobs because you've used them before and like it? Or just doing it because its sensible wargear? There's been enough times where I've allocated a wound to a nob in a squad of boys simply because I was getting down to 3-6 boys, and I NEEDED to keep as many of them alive as possible to get their hits in. I wouldn't encourage you to take it off, but I *would* encourage you to try it a few ways in different games. If you don't find 'Eavy armor on nobs suiting your playstyle (IE, you don't use it often enough to justify it), then don't do it. With more thought, I probably lean towards not taking 'Eavy armor on my nobs - putting that 4+ armor save means wanting to use it to save boys, meaning allocating more wounds than you otherwise would to the nob, meaning he might just die faster. >< As it is, the only way my nob takes a wound is if I intentionally allocate on there to save a boy.

2. There is one thing certain to happen at 2500 points. The "big dogs" of armies are coming out. Are YOU prepared to handle them? You have a half strength mega-nob unit; why? If you're putting them in a battlewagon, you might as well fill it up and stick 10 in there. If you don't plan on using them like that, why don't you take a regular unit of nobs, give them differing wargear and a few of them powerklaws and seriously ramp up the survivability of your army? Burnas can melt some serious faces, but as it stands...that's your only "power" unit.

3. Warbikers are SERIOUSLY overcosted and underpowered. You're giving a regular ork boy +1 toughness, a 4+ armor save, and the ability to move....farther. You can replicate all of that with boys in a vehicle, or an 'Ard Boys unit. 'Ard Boyz is NOT a friendly tournament for non-competitive lists, and I'd have to strongly encourage you not to put warbikers into a competitive list. Nob bikers sure....warbikers, no.

4. If you take the warbikes out, you can use the extra points to do a lot of things: Flesh out your meganobs, take the meganobs out and use all the points to make a nob squad....a unit of 10 nobs (if you haven't seen the configuration before, here's my personal favorite:

1. Painboy
2. Bosspole
3. Waaaugh! Banner
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

-All equipped with 'Eavy Armor, in a battlewagon, no cybork body (I can link you a rather lengthy explanation of this elsewhere demonstrating the futility of giving these cybork bodies if you like).

That gives you two power units; burna boys and a nob squad capable of tackling the bigger threats in an enemy army.

5. Why are you taking two big meks with KFFs? Since you have two, I'm making a presumption here that you need two bubbles because you split your forces? *cries* Even at 2500 points, a single big mek with a KFF can create a 6" bubble that screens all your vehicles. You shouldn't ever split your ork forces - run them like a big wrecking ball, and don't ever split them up. If the enemy creates three separate army groups on the table, don't split your army up to take on all three 2500 vs 2500, use your entire 2500 points to take down one piece of it wholly and completely. Then its 2500 vs 1700 and your opponent is going to feel real dumb for sacrificing part of their army to you. If the split in half, pick a piece and tackle it....but you should not ever need a second mek with a KFF when one can bubble everything.

6. That leads into my next point....you have six troop choices, and if you take my advice and free up an HQ spot, you can fit a warboss into the second spot. That warboss makes the nob squad a troop choice. A ridiculously hard to kill, two wound model with wound allocation magic hard to kill unit.

7. You have a mechanized assault ork army. Without Ghazghkull. You have a mechanized ork assault army without Ghazghkull. Youhaveamechanizedassaultorkarmylistwithoutghazghkull. WAAAUGH! Are you playing space marines in disguise? Ghazghkull BELONGS in your list. Ghazghkull gives you a 27" turn2+ charge range. With him in your army and that kind of charge range, YOU decide where to assault. YOU decide who participates. YOU decide what dies. YOU are the god of war for that battle. Leaving Ghazghkull out of a 2500 point ork mechanized list is a grevious mistake.

8. Anti-tank: You're going to see a lot of tanks in 5th edition and at 'Ard Boyz. At 2500 points, I run with a squad of tank-bustas in a battlewagon, and they eat tanks. Against land raiders, you need something more than a nob with a powerklaw on a boarding plank hoping for a 4 or 6 to hit, and a 5 to glance, 6 to penetrate. Don't rely on luck, put SOME kind of anti-tank into your list. Wherever your first round of 'Ard Boyz is going to be held, find out now what their house ruling is on deff-rollas against vehicles. RAW, you can do it. RAI by some people you cannot. If its allowed, deffrollas are pretty much mandatory for battlewagons. If you go to Home Depot or Lowes, they sell PVC pipe segments (joiners? Connectors) that are exactly the right length for the battlewagon. Cut a cardboard circle to fit into each end, glue them in, stick a wire in there to connect/magnetize/glue to your battlewagon, and spray the whole thing black; viola. Chop up some sprue to make the roller spiky, or add tacks, nails, (my wife used the little stick-on gems from Wal-mart). Regardless of what you do, at 2500 points, you're going to see more tanks, and too many land raiders for comfort. At 1750 and 1850, one land raider...two land raiders for a tiny model count army, in which case you can ignore them, gang up on them with your boarding planks. But at 2500 points....you need more.

9. Battlewagons in an assault list exist to deliver boys into combat. That's 12-13" per turn (depending on red paint). I firmly believe that weaponry on the battlewagons exist for the sole purpose of absorbing weapon destroyed hits. I don't think you're going to get a chance to shoot them if you're using your battlewagons effectively. I stick a single big shoota on each of my battlewagons so that they can absorb a weapon destroyed result (which hopefully a big mek will fix next turn), but they don't get much shooting. If you're going to put more than one weapon on a battlewagon serving as an assault platform, let me advise you to at least make it a big shoota and a kannon - the kannon's STR4 AP5 small blast counts as a defensive weapon so if you only move six you can shoot both. Two big shootas though....I feel like they're wasted.

10. If you see the light of day and put Ghazghkull in your army, you don't need bosspoles on your nobs. Again; there's a long tactics discussion elsewhere on this; the short of it being that with Ghazghkull in your army, your entire army is fearless when the game is being decided (IE, the turn you Waaaugh! and charge).

11. There's nothing wrong with Stormboyz. I think you've made a fantastic decision here - they can move fast enough to keep up with your vehicles, and your vehicles can screen them from being shot - that means you have the ability to deliver a lot more bodies into combat at the same time than your vehicles alone can deliver. Not to shoot anyone elses' advice down, but your stormboyz are NOT wasted. They are NOT wasted at ALL. The advice for you to upgrade your vehicles...remember that vehicles are just a cheap platform to get you into combat as fast as possible. They're GOING to die. Your trukks are GOING to explode. You've already given them the worthwhile upgrades (red paint, reinforced rams) - I think boarding planks are a trend that's started on dakka because I've pushed hard for them, and I find them to be great anti-tank, but there's a lot of folks that seriously disagree with me on that one.

But please, don't follow that advice. Don't dump your stormboyz and upgrade your vehicles - keep those stormboyz and use them to follow your trukks into combat. 12 trukk boys (presuming slugga/choppa) have 44 attacks on the charge (WS4, STR4) and four WS4 STR9 attacks. Statistically against most armies, half of those will hit, half of that half will wound....but at I3, you're still going to strike after MEQs and as a mechanized ork player I do a *LOT* of dumping multiple units of trukk boys into a combat to make sure I win. Stormboyz are a BETTER way to do it. Honestly, better. Instead of dumping out three squads of 12 boys into a terminator squad, or into a marine squad, or worse...something bigger; you only have to dump out one (keeping others for boarding planks and to deal with dedicated transports) while your stormboyz scream in from behind to bolster the ranks and add enough attacks to make sure that you decimate whatever you're attacking.

Keep in mind that those stormboyz need to be used strategically; they cost more than regular boys (just like your burnas) - don't dump them into monstrous creatures, or into genestealers, or something where they aren't going to get a decided advantage granted through numbers. But yeah; Stormboys are the perfect complement to a mechanized list. When someone deep strikes terminators behind your rolling vehicle mass, you don't need to ignore them/take rear armor fire or split your forces, you just break off a unit of stormboys to eat them.

-----------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR (I hope not): You have a very potent KoS list that isn't optimal, but is chugging in the right direction. I'd like to see you read all my thoughts here, come up with any questions you may have, and make a revised list (editing your first post) so that I can go through a second round of advice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, two burnas are 100% mandatory in Snikrot's squad. Find room for them.

Ok Dash I am not sure if you are mixing up myself and the other list that bob posted. Your advice is pretty dead on over all though.

I will put Ghazy in the list, I originaly took the 2 KFFs because I have a LARGE foot print with the stormboys.

About the Eavy Armour, I don't normaly use it on Nobs but I was in the mindset that I wanted to crank out the survivalbility of every mob (I normaly don't use poles either). I could lose that upgrade in favor of making room for Ghazy.

And I am building this list with the intention to run with the "big dogs" so your help is much appreciated!

(for all those people out there that thought Eavy Armour = Ard boys..... do you know what the point cost would have been!!!!!)

Ah, apparently I did get a bit mixed up in my scrolling.... =p

Advice is good nonetheless. I'll say this though...

You *DO* have a large footprint with your Stormboyz....do you really think that having a 5+ cover save is going to do much over your 6+ armor save? Getting a 4+ cover save is very easy for a number of reasons:

-Screen your stormboyz behind your vehicles: 4+ cover save

-Boyz inside vehicles get their vehicle blown up and end up in craters and wreckage: 4+ cover save

-hehehehe...my favorite - gretchin running screaming up the table prodded on by their ork overlords, who get 4+ cover saves because there's a unit between them and incoming fire.

-And if it gets really bad; you can always send a unit to ground and get a 3+ cover save for a bit.
-------------------------------------------------
As for the "big dogs" I didn't mean that you need to run with the big dogs, I mean that you need the ability take DOWN the big dogs. You need a couple units capable of thrashing the biggest, nastiest units that hit the field. Today for example, I rolled up to a Land Raider with some Space Wolves nastiness in it....Ajax, some frost axe stuff, terminators....a sent a squad of trukk boys into it, and hit it on the other side with Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh!

Now the space wolf player had a VERY tough decisions: Mulch through a bunch of the trukk boys (that anything can kill) or try taking down the big dog. More often than not, people go after Ghazghkull, by himself, with no retinue, not attached to anything. Ghazghkull with his 2+ invul save. Bwah ha ha. Suckers.

I do that crap all the time. I tend to run Ghazghkull + 18 nobs in a battlewagon now (one of which is a nob); quite often Ghazghkull disembarks by himself to go deal with a threat that boyz would be suicidal to tackle, and I send the boyz somewhere else. That configuration I showed for the nobs lets you take a battlewagon as a dedicated transport, and put 10 nobs + Ghazghkull inside.....when I first started doing it, I would send them both against something monstrous and horrible, but came to realize that it was too much; then I started splitting the nobs off to go attack MEQs where they'd get those 4+ armor saves and FNP while Ghazghkull went after nasty things where that 2+ invul would come in handy....

And finally, I retired the nobs because I found a balance between burna boys, Ghazghkull, and enough regular trukk boy squads (and kommandos and stormboyz) to surgically dissect pretty much any army.

Now, I think I'm starting to swing back the other way again; 15 burna boys are cool for drive by shootings, but that battlewagon can only move 6" per turn....and while they count as power weapons if you don't shoot (when you assault), they STILL strike at I3, meaning that MEQs and pretty much everything else gets to go first so that by the time your burna boys get to go, you have 5-7 left, if that.

Then again, the whole reason I put them in my army in the first place was to flame genestealers and assault carnifexes and hive tyrants. Losing 2-3 per turn in exchange for killing one of those MCs is a fair trade, I think I've just started relying on them too much. Bah!!!! There's so much good stuff in the ork arsenal. =p The toughest part is finding combinations you like.

Looks like an alright list. Not Crazy about using partial units though. Something about not having a full troop of guys really bugs me.

Nice list!

All of his units *are* full. Stormboys cap at 20, kommandos at 15, and his boys are full to the brim in the transports. ><

Ok here is version two based off of fitting Ghazzy in recommended by DoP, I ran into some interesting point problems so I axed a Stormboy squad for a cheaper Kommando squad. I tried to fit in a Nob squad instead but I just didn't like the amount of stuff I would have to cut. I may still try to come up with an alternate list that has the Nobs in it.


Ghazzy!
Big Mek
-Kff, Eavy Armour

Kommandos
-15, 2xBurna Snikrot
Kommandos
-15, Nob PK


Boyz
-18, Nob, PK,
Boyz
-19, Nob, PK,
Boyz
-20, Nob, PK,
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Trukk, BoardingPlank
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Trukk, BoardingPlank
Boyz
-12, Nob, Pk, Trukk, BoardingPlank

Stormboyz
-20, Nob, PK,
Stormboyz
-20, Nob, PK,


Battlewagon
-BigShoota, Boarding Plank
Battlewagon
-BigShoota, Boarding Plank
Battlewagon
-BigShoota, Boarding Plank

Its a mistake not to put reinforced rams at the very least on your vehicles. It really is.

Your nob squad is not a boyz squad - you have six troop choices (max) and they're a troop choice....meaning that you already have to cut a troop choice at least to get the nobs in there. Cut the second unit of kommandos - kommandos without Snikrot are simply not worth it. Not worth a hillabeans.

If you cut the kommandos out, two squads of boys...you should almost have enough. Cutting out a third would afford them for sure leaving you four troop choices. Then again, that would start beating back your already well-themed army. Honestly though, take out the second unit of kommandos - use those points to give your nobs 'eavy armor (maybe) reinforced rams on all your vehicles (potentially deff rollas on your battlewagons depending on what your local store says about using them against vehicles), grabbin' klaws on your battlewagons, and what the hell - make one of your boy squads (like the 20) be 'Ard Boyz.

In 2500 you're GONNA see some big units and some very tough units - you still don't have anything capable of dealing with any of it except for throwing mroe boy squads into it. If you fight Nidzillas, what are you going to do? Trade off 1- trukk boy squads per monstrous creature to get it dead? If you fight a genestealer army....you're pretty much toast. If you fight Horde orks - you might do ok with the charge, but you're in trouble. If you fight biker nobs - its going to cost you half your army to kill a squad of them (and you need the charge).

You've got numbers and speed on your side - you need to add in something capable of krumpin' the big stuff.

Ok I am going to step back a bit and break down what should belong in the list. Starting with what is most important I assume.

Ghazzy
BigMek KFF
Snikrot
1-2x hard hit melee/close range units, Nobs/burnas/MANs
3x BattleWagons as transports
4x Scoring Units
Stormboys

That seem like the right track.

There's a lot of "flair" in the ork codex....I say that to mean things with good use....but stacking all the flair together doesn't really make it better. I don't know if that has a point or not, I was just looking at your list of important things (burnas, nobs, MANs, Snikrot....) and trying to think of how to explain that they might not all work perfectly well together.

I hate sounding like a self-righteous person, or arrogant, but its hard not to when I truly believe my ork tactics are superior. =p

I'd say this: You *are* on the right track in terms of how to build a great army list. vehicles and stormboyz creating a fast, highly mobile army capable of choosing where to fight is incredibly effective. I think I would urge you not to worry about scoring units.

I can't say this without sounding arrogant, but when I play Orks, I play to table my opponents. Every game is annihilation for me. Objective games are even better because my opponent will split their forces to take objectives, willingly letting me eat half of their army without complaint while the other half of their army goes running to take objectives. Except that YOUR army is fast enough that you can then turn around and go take those objectives away. Orks (and Dark Eldar) are FANTASTIC at taking objectives away, and HORRIBLE at holding objectives. When you place objectives, they have to be 12" away from other objectives.

If you get two objectives and they get one, you can place one, they place one, you place a second 12" away from one of them (or hopefully 12" away from both in a triangle.
If you get one and they get two, you can place one 12" away from one of theirs.
If you get three vs 2, or 2 vs three...same thing. You can create a saturation of objectives in one spot, as close to each other as possible. You want to fight over one area. A single squad of trukk boyz (12) can spread 2" away from each other with 1" bases for a total of 36" with 3" of control radius on either side....for a total of 42".

That's right: 12 boyz can hold 42" worth of territory. A single squad of trukk boyz can hold 2-3 objectives by stringing itself out. You'll have to protect them....but they can do it. When I make army lists, and when I play games, I don't care about scoring units, or troop choices, or objectives. I take the killiest, most brutal army I can take, and I focus completely on tabling my opponent. If I fail at this, turn 4-5 I turn around and take away objectives they might be hiding. But the reason I win....and I pretty much always win....is because virtually everyone I will ever play is automatically disadvantaged if they don't play the same way I do.

Capture and control games: People either play for a tie so completely turtle their objectives, or they split their forces; leaving some to guard and others to go attack mine. Since Snikrot is always in my list, there's always defenders at their objective. I always place my objectives as close as possible to the middle of the table, to the enemy deployment zone, because I'm taking the game down there. In Capture and Control, I send my entire army to go take their objective. If they are sending forces to get mine, then my entire army intercepts theirs in the middle and eats them, then moves on to take theirs. With a 27" assault potential, and any trukk/troop choice able to move 18-19" per turn, I consider objectives an afterthought. Whoever made objectives wasn't keeping orks in mind. What the graff do Orks care about objectives? We want a good fight. That's it.

That's my (continuing) advice: Don't worry about objectives or scoring units. You'll have plenty as long as you aren't suiciding them into enemy ranks or splitting up your forces or doing anything decidedly un-orky. Remember that: A single 12 man ork squad can hold 3 objectives 12" apart from each other. By the time I get around to actually DOING it (I usually aim for two objectives, not three), I've killed most to virtually all of the enemy army, so there's nothing left around to threaten my orks going to take objectives.


But yeah:
Annihilation games are easy. Get killy.
Seize Ground games are easy. Get killy.
Capture and Control games are easy. Get killy.

--------------------------------------
My whole point here is not to worry about scoring units so much. Get killy instead. I don't think meganobs are particularly competitive or killy; they're two-wound terminators with I1, and there's a lot of power swords out there at I4. At 2500 points, a squad of burna boys will answer any infantry, genestealers, and monstrous creatures - monstrous creatures being the important thing to have an answer to in a well-rounded list. Their shooting power is probably unparalled in the world of 40k. I think the most damage I've ever done with them at a single time was to tank shock a squad of 'Ard Boyz led by Mad Dok Grotsnik. After tank-shokking them, I laid down a flame template and hit nine of them. That's 135 hits. I don't remember how many wounds I caused, but after all the 4+ armor saves and FNP were done, all but Mad Dok were dead (from 30). Statistically I guess that's 67.5 wounds, 33.75 failed armor saves and 17 dead orks. I did a little better than average.

Burna boys are the mother<expletive> awesome <expletive> poo. Especially in bigger games.


The nobs....when I use Ghazghkull + nobs, I would split Ghazghkull off and send them into a terminator squad, or up against some genestealers, or into a seer council, or whatever the biggest baddest enemy unit was....and I would send the nobs into the biggest MEQ unit I could find. Big units of marines, havoc squads, even plague bearers with T5 and FNP, I don't care. Three power klaws, 3 big choppas, a Waaaugh! banner to let me hit on 3+ most of the time, and we're in serious business. However, I WOULDN'T use Ghazghkull + nobs on the same target. Things that you need Ghazghkull for (like monstrous creatures, dreadnoughts, defilers, thunderhammer guys, any unit with more than one power weapon) are not for nobs to assault - for those, you back up Ghazghkull with a cheap unit of trukk boyz, where you use them as a delivery system for the powerklaw, although a squad of trukk boyz with WS4, STR4 on the charge have 44 attacks to deliver (along the with the nob)....nothing to laugh at.

Anyway, hope this was helpful and not just more rambling.

Well it was rambling... But reading your posts is like panning for gold. Once you sift away the dirt and rocks (aka the krazy rambling) you can find loads of shiny gold (the invaluable nuggets of orkish wisdom!)
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Seriously though dash is 100% correct, no matter what the dice roll, orks play to table. Period. My favorite opponent out of my game group knows this, and he therefore plays the same with his armies against me, which makes for epic and fun games. I would assume in a tourny though you will run in to many more people who don't know your tactics, and will therefore make the mistakes dash listed above.
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As far as deffrollas go... I will ALWAYS take them, even if they couldn't hit vehicles. Deffrolla can just wreak havoc on infantry, and one saved my hide recently when it ran down my foes remaining 3 marines (2 from one squad, 1 from another) and killed them so he couldn't claim jack squat lol.

Ok so I am going loonly but I think I figured out a list that amuses me greatly and has a bite to it. I will problys go back a modified version of my first list but I enjoy making and cranking out lists.

HQ
Ghazzy
BigMek- KFF

Elite
Burna Boys-15
Burna Boys-15
Kommandos-14 + Snikrot, 2x Burna

Troops
Nobs-10, Eavy Armour, Painboy, 3x Big Choppas, Bosspole Battlewagon w/Bigshoota Boading Plank (I know they are not geared differently but I am fine with that. I have ran them like this before and they do fine. They will not be going after +2 armour, they will be going after large squads/Meq.)
Boys-20, Nob w/PK Bosspole
Boys-12, Nob w/Pk Bosspole Trukk
Boys-12, Nob w/PK Bosspole Trukk

Fast
Warbuggys -3, 2x Rokkits 1xSkorcha
Warbuggys -3, 2x Rokkits 1xSkorcha
Warbuggys -3, 2x Rokkits 1xSkorcha

Heavy
Battlewagon w/BigShoota Boarding Plank
Battlewagon w/BigShoota Boarding Plank
Battlewagon w/BigShoota Boarding Plank

So ya I did some major changes, most notably are the buggys! I've used them before and I know you can't rely on them to kill tanks but for the points they do a good job at harassing, and contesting. And you can never have enough flame templates!

@Aztralwolf - Deffrollas are STR10 AP-. If you hit three marines and killed all three (despite their 3+ armor saves), very cool. But the deffrolla doesn't take saves away from anything, which is why I find it useless against everything except vehicles.

@Dakrumpa - your new list has a unit of 10 nobs with no powerklaws. I disapprove. *really* disapprove. Also, you've got 20 boys listed inside a trukk. Also, you don't really need bosspoles anymore because you have Ghazghkull to make you fearless for the one turn that it counts for. Also, you should still discover reinforced rams.

The trukk was a typo.

@Dash- lol I stick with what works, and deffrolla-ing troops works. Yeah there is no AP, but its ALMOST an auto wound with every hit it causes. Seeing as I am a firm believer in causing every single armor save I can, deffrolla's are the thing for me... But as with most things YMMV. Plus the prospect of 1d6 S10 hits on each squad it touches seems to put the fear of Gork 'n' Mork into my opponents. And if you are going to tank shock anyway, why not get every lasy benefit from it
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As for the new list, if you are going to take buggies, at least match all the weapons up, or some shooting phases one or the other may just go to waste. And I seriously advise you diversify those nobz and watch just how much better they do!

one deffrolla with D6 STR10 hits with no AP value....that's 20 points.

For 20 points, I can get 3 orks with 4 attacks each with 12 attacks total. Their math-hammered hits are always better than the deffrolla, unless you're tankshocking high toughness models....which are generally monstrous creatures that will 2D6 penetration death or glory you with an auto-hit.

Dashofpepper wrote:@Aztralwolf - Deffrollas are STR10 AP-. If you hit three marines and killed all three (despite their 3+ armor saves), very cool. But the deffrolla doesn't take saves away from anything, which is why I find it useless against everything except vehicles.

Sadly deffrolas cannot be used against vehicles, I know it's a hot spot for contrevery, but most if not all laces are quite clear on it. Also I don't think deth rollas are woth it, just take boyz, lots of boys hehehehehe, so many boyz that you break the table and your oppenent must forfeight beacuse the sheer number of boys has driven them mad. HAHAHAHA!

*does a silly little dance on the deffrolla controversy sparks before they can ignite*

So uhhhh, how 'bout the weather!?

-disclaimer: aztralwolf is aware that was off topic, but he feels that his strange off topic post was for the goodness of the thread in general, we shall call it the anti argument innoculation! end disclaimer-

But yeah maybe mathhammer deffrolla isn't as good as the 3 boyz it buys, but hey, wargamers are like baseball players, we have our beliefs and superstitions, and we darn well stick to 'em!

Thanks for holding me back, moving on it's snowing, and I chalenge your baseball analagy with three choppa held by crazy fungus monsters. Which is better then a hunk of spiky metal.

Dashofpepper wrote:

-All equipped with 'Eavy Armor, in a battlewagon, no cybork body (I can link you a rather lengthy explanation of this elsewhere demonstrating the futility of giving these cybork bodies if you like).

On this bit, are you talking about 'EA + Cybork? or just Cybork vs 'EA. either way I'd be quite interested~!

Also is there a reason you wouldn't advocate a squad of loots instead of one of his Kommandos?

The reason for the kommandos in this case is they fit the army better, they will drop in on turn 2+ cause some havoc, then meet up with the main force, the lootas will be separated from the main force, and thus liable to being killed, a vehicle could slip past the ork lines and kill thos expensive lottas no problem. Since the army will want to keep pushing forwards you want units that will fit. Also lootas are more points.

Now we are upto two burnas anyway lol

I just feet uncomfortable with the lists model count or something =_= for 2500pts wish I knew what. My real wonder is if one plays 'no rolling mah vehicles' how do you feel this list will deal with armour, just play around it by killing everything else?
...
God that sounds silly =(

Ah....

You deal with mechanized lists like this:

1. Find out from your local store if they allow deffrollas.
2. Boarding planks
3. Grabbin' Klaws

Getting into turn2 assault against a mechanized list isn't so difficult with your own mechanized list, and having your assault force inside vehicles protected from exploding vehicles and counter-assaults is priceless. You entire wall of trukks and battlewagons rolls up to their line of vehicles (0r a flank of it anyway) and starts safely powerklawing all their vehicles. You'd be surprised at the effects.


As for nobs in a battlewagon taking cybork bodies being a waste, let preface with two assumptions:
1. You will always get the assault (27" assault range says you will).
2. You will not assault something heavily laden with power weapons, terminators, monstrous creatures because you have other units to deal with those.

As such, you will never have need of a 5+ invul save. The nbos are protected in their transport until they get up to combat, at which time they unload and go assault something where they have 4+/4+ FNP. If their battlewagon gets destroyed, they're sitting behind it with 4+ cover (or no line of sight), or they're sitting in the wreckage if it exploded with 4+ cover saves. Moving on foot up the battle after that, they can readily hide behind other vehicles or cover to retain the 4+ save, or you can dump out a squad of boys from a trukk and put in the nobs.