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I was in a tournament this past weekend, and an issue came up in one of my games.

My opponent put down two dedicated transports, both full of troops. I pointed out that the rules declare dedicated transports to count towards the DoW allotment as a second troop choice, and he asked me to show him that in the rules. I pointed out in the DoW mission scenario where in the example it explains a player putting down a unit of troops with a transport counting as the second slot....

An argument then ensued because the folks there believe that in the scenario in the rulebook, the player was choosing to do that, not required to do so, and that it doesn't say anywhere that dedicated transports count towards troop allotment in DoW scenarios.

Ultimately the TO ruled that it would because the example describes it so, but they've been playing the other way in the store (and in town) always....I'm just a newcomer. =p Anyone able to shed more light, maybe an FAQ, something more solid than the example in the DoW mission setup? The example they give under the picture is useful, but its not a "rule."

Unfortunately if the blockheads are not convinced by the example in the rulebook you'll not find any other document that will satisfy them.

A transport is a unit as well.

Its a unit, but its neither a troop choice or an HQ, so by the DoW rules, wouldn't you then be disallowed to put a transport on the table?

*EDIT* And I should note that I used to play that way; for my HQ and two troops I'd put out Ghazghkull and a unit of Nobs inside a battlewagon (dedicated transport) as 1 HQ and 1 troop, and a unit of boys inside a trukk as a second troop choice. I stopped doing it because the store I learned to play made me after long and bitter disputes about the rules (I was still learning at the time).

Is the selection made with troops ?
The placement (or lack thereof) on the FOC is not related here.

kirsanth wrote:Is the selection made with troops ?
The placement (or lack thereof) on the FOC is not related here.

Not sure I understand your question.....rephrase?

Are the transport selected with Troops?

The fact that they do not take FOC slots is not related -- in this case.

To elaborate: DoW doesn't allow you to deploy 2 Troops choices from the FoC. It very specifically allows you to deploy a 2 Troops units.

A squad and its dedicated Transport, despite coming from the same FOC slot, are 2 separate units.

I like that the player in the rulebook is merely 'choosing' to count his dedicated transport as the second troop unit. Seriously, if they aren't going to see it your way then it's a house rule that they're going to use basically always. They will have to go over it with newcomers before playing though to stop them from conceding the actual rules during the game.

My club doesn't agree with the No Retreat! rule rolling saves for each fearless unit. A newcomer would wonder why the tyranid players are spreading 6 fearless saves across 3 units. Meh.

Ridcully wrote:I like that the player in the rulebook is merely 'choosing' to count his dedicated transport as the second troop unit.

Not sure what you're getting at there. The example simply says that the transport is his second Troops unit.

Insaniak has it dead on.

also, not sure if its worth noting, but a transport is still worth kill points, so it is a unit as such.

So in DoW, I can't have 5 squads of Plague Marines all in Rhinos?

insaniak wrote:

Ridcully wrote:I like that the player in the rulebook is merely 'choosing' to count his dedicated transport as the second troop unit.

Not sure what you're getting at there. The example simply says that the transport is his second Troops unit.

And DashofPepper was saying that "the folks there believe that in the scenario in the rulebook, the player was choosing to do that, not required to do so". That is laughable.

I think you're confusing my observation with an argument.


@Zack: Huh? Why could you even if transports weren't troop units? Unless you're talking about the whole game, in which case yes you can.

You can have them in the army. But you can only put two Troops units on the board during deployment.

this is specifically in the book amazingly enough.

its under dedicated transports count as a "unit" of the same slot as the unit they are bought for.

so a rhino bought for tac marines is a troop unit, which can not count as scoring even though its troops by the scoring rules which says vehicle can not be scoring.... and so on.

i'm suprised people have such a hard time with this. the only BENEFIT a dedicated transport gives you compared with an independent one is that it doesn't take up a force org slot. The only DISADVANTAGE it has compared with an independent one is that it can only start the game with the unit it was bought with. otherwise it counts as a completely independent unit for everything else... shooting... moving... kill points... dawn of war... etc.

This is an incredibly common misread.

As noted, the rulebook example is extremely clear, but I've still had to point it out to multiple people.

I think it's largely a carryover from 4th and 3rd edition players, for whom all unit deployment was normally related to the Force Org choices.

Along the lines of things that confused me about Dawn of War deployment:

I thought you were required to deploy 1 HQ and 2 Troops. The wording just limits you to a HQ and two troops at most but you can place less if you prefer.

correct, you can deploy UP TO 1 hq and 2 troops.

IE, if your army calls for it, you can place nothing on the table to get a tactical advantage.

Dashofpepper wrote:IE, if your army calls for it, you can place nothing on the table to get a tactical advantage.

Or almost any time you're going second in DoW.

In fact, it's a nice enough advantage that many times I choose to go second in DoW scenarios.

As tau, i only voluntarily go second in DoW if we're playing objectives. Otherwise, i prefer room to deploy my troops which (by the 18" rule) also keeps the enemy a safer distance away. Tyranids being a good example of an army i would want to "Stay back!", but which often can't afford to leave everything in pseudo-reserve just to avoid my initial shooting.

But Tau also have black sun filters, often completely negating the first-turn nightfight penalty.

I don't know what you're getting at. We also have acute senses on our battlesuits. Shooting isn't the problem, it's them deploying up to half way and me walking everything onto the board (which would also reduce fire warrior range to 12") or staying 18" away (increasing the chances of desired ruins and such being within that 18" restriction, leaving me out in the open).