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Alright guys so i'm trying to decide whether or not I should run a full squad of Storm Boyz or a full squad of Kommandos. I would have them lead by either Zagstruk or Snikrot. Right now my list is as follows.

HQ:
KFF Mech

KFF Mech

Troops:
30x Slugga Boyz
-Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
-Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
-Nob w/PK

Deff Dread
-2 DCCW

Deff Dread
-2DCCW

Heavy:
3x Kill Kans
-Grotzookas

3x Kill Kans
-Grotzookas

3x Kill Kans
-Grotzookas

Total: 1475

The only problem I have found with the army is how slow moves. Some armies dance around me and its tough to catch them. I still never lose to often and if I do their close games so I dont want to change the list. What i do want however is a way to put some preasure on my opponent while im walking towards them. I was thinking the Kommandos would be the best since they can come from any table edge, but the stormboyz dont seem like a bad idea either. What do you guys think?

Kommandos are super squishy. They can provide some fun (10 with Snikrot and 2 Burnas runs you 215 points but no PKs) but I can't keep the stupid things alive.

Stormboyz can get into things on turn 2 and tie up a unit. The downside is that, if they win that combat, they are stuck out in the open far away from the rest of your army. Alternatively, you can use them to strike at a fast opponent squad or to prevent a player from moving out of range by blocking escape. With Zagstuk... zagstruck... Mr. Vulture, you can even get them in with a DS and give them a little what-for. Theoretically, this will keep the player moving tanks around because Zag can peel one open if given half a chance.

Problem with reserve units would be that they come in randomly. I'd say half my games result in my Kommandos entering late enough to the point that they are no where near an enemy unit and I've already used the WAAAGH! Overall, I like the concept but cannot get them to work in my lists.

I've not run Stormboyz but they seem like a good idea. They get a 12" + 1d6" movement (where a roll of 1 means 13" and a dead stormboy) and that allows a hell of an assault range. However, as with all orks, they are just boyz and thus have a useless 6+ save. As I said above, the speed may also lead you to take risks resulting in the unit being far enough ahead that the enemy uses some shots on it instead of your other models (especially if you are running a Kan wall and getting the cover save).

if you your looking for something to give your opponent something to worry about, then kopptas are the way to go. turbo boost them over on their scout move, then move them their 12" forward, shoot some of their missiles if you want to, then get dug in with buzzsaws on those tanks that where sitting there.

it really forces your opponent into a set deployment, either net bodies around the tanks, deploy in a corner, keep all of his armor in reserves or he could face the turn one slaughter of his armor.

@Garuss
Yeah people keep commenting on Deff Koptas but i really dont know how crazy i am about them. Would you suggest taking like 2 squads of 3? Or 3 squads of 3 or just having 3 lone Koptas?

@Paradoxic
Yeah having stuff in reserve never seems to come in when you need them too. Kommandos just seem extremely fun to play and so do Stormboyz.

I'm not sure what im going to do. I could just add more Boyz but that really makes the army boring. I cant stand running 120+ boyz...its just way to bland to play.

Kommandos are the better choice because you are running a footslogging list. Your opponents will continually back up to avoid the oncoming green tide; they will deploy to take advantage of terrain. Snikrot will punish them if they do this. In effect snikrot pushes the enemy army forward toward your footslogging horde. Deff Koptas can be a pain but again I'm not sure they work that well when the rest of your army is on foot.

Here's the problem with Kommandos and Snikrot. You have a squad of boyz, say 10, with 6+ armor saves. You have no boss pole. All you need is a MEQ squad to shoot into you and suffer 3 wounds (easy) and you're having to make Ld checks. On a charge, you're still only Initiative 3, so you're hitting after most opponents. Even the burnas as power weapons will net you eight 4+/4+ for the average of 2 power weapon wounds on I3.

While Snikrot can be a real bastard, he's still part of the unit and using normal weapons and normal armor. So you might get 4 wounds with his strength and reroll, but they can save against the set without difficulty.

Against shooter types that were dumb enough to get too close to a board edge, kommandos are great. However, you won't see that happen very often and only for certain armies.

One really nice thing is the ability for them to either take out a heavy weapons squad (stupid frag missiles) or force the player to spend a few turns moving said squad instead of shooting with it.

I'd say go for the stormies. See, the thing about that extra movement is, you don't HAVE to use it. You can move as little as you please. So if you're worried about them outpacing the footsloggers, just let them hang back behind the kans where they get a 4+ cover save until somebody tries to dodge out of assault range. THEN hammer 'em, and Waagh! on the same turn. That'll probably bring everybody in together.

Problem with that is that you are paying all the extra points for regular ol boyz, but boyz with extra movement. And then not using it. Sure you can do it that way, and it works, but why pay the points?

Go with Snikrot, 14 kommandos, with 2 burnas. I have run this dozens of times in my footslogger list, and it proves worthwhile.

To understand the value of this, don't think "Will this get its points back?" 40k is not about points any more, its about VPs or objectives. So the question you should ask is 'Will this help me get more VPs or claim more objectives?" The answer is a resounding yes.

Most enemies will place their heavy support near the edge of the board. Support such as Basilisk can really ruin a footslogger army's day, and snikrots crew can remove that worry for you. I have used Snikrot's krew to kill 3 oblitrators multiple times, and they have even killed 30 boys before using the two flamers and assault. After your assault, consolidate Snikrot's krew into cover if you won.

Without fail, when I have used Snikrot's krew for such a purpose, the enemy turns and unloads everything into that squad. He will move as many of his units into position to fire on them, or move to assault with his troops. This is what you want, as that will allow the rest of your army to run an extra turn without much fire.

The end result is always the same. Snikrot's krew either gains a VP back, and their direct the opponet for 1+ turns. In a 5-7 turn game, that's a good thing.

Edit : As an added bonus, if you are playing someone who is TFG, then you can also have a warboss on a warbike with a PK join Snikrot's krew. On the turn they move in from any board edge, the warboss can detach from the krew and race forward to cause his own havoc. This is generally considered extremely cheezy and will not make friends -- but its good when you need to smack down TFG

Wow guys thanks a ton for the replies. I am leaning towards the Kommandos for my list. If i were to play Stormboyz, i would deepstrike them. I know deepstriking is so risky and probably not worth it, but it can play head games with your opponent. To be honest...deepstriking seems to be the only way to bring stormboyz in...i mean common.

I'm just getting ready to play test the kommandos. Ill be sure to update you guys on how they go. Thanks again for the advice!

I really think the stormboyz are fantastic at tearing across the table and smashing in to that one devastator squad, or whoever that is squishy with the long range shots, and tying them up from shooting the boyz while they walk. They aren't supposed to kill everyone, nor really survive the whole game. They serve a purpose.

Either way, I think the kommandos may see a lot more utility in the long run for ya.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:Wow guys thanks a ton for the replies. I am leaning towards the Kommandos for my list. If i were to play Stormboyz, i would deepstrike them. I know deepstriking is so risky and probably not worth it, but it can play head games with your opponent. To be honest...deepstriking seems to be the only way to bring stormboyz in...i mean common.

I'm just getting ready to play test the kommandos. Ill be sure to update you guys on how they go. Thanks again for the advice!

Both are finesse units and experience will improve what they accomplish for you. Choose your targets carefully with your kommandos or else they will get wiped the turn after they arrive. Try to assualt something that is in cover or close enough to cover that a consolidation move will get you into cover.

I play tested to Kommandos and they did what they were supposed to do. They Tied up a unit for a couple rounds and eventually killed it. It wasnt really enough help my slow Kan Wall build though. I need something more. Ill be play testing Storm Boyz as well as 2 full squads of Lootas soon. I think Lootas might actually be my answer. STR 7 is amazing and could pose a real threat to the opponent, espicially when im laying down a good many shots.

Both Kommandos and Stormboyz are fun and very orky. Kommandos NEED Snikrot to be really good, and they seem to work well with any army for tying up shooty units or scaring the enemy off the table edges (and closer to your assault troops).

Stormboyz work best with a speed army. They get too far from their support and they are simply gunned down without mercy. But they have a role in complementing a fast army, especially one without meks (such as a biker army). Jumping over obstacles and assaulting from behind to negate front cover such as walls is a nice ability and they can move hellishly fast with a little luck.

The problem with one unit of storm boys in a foot slogger army is just that..... you have one fast element that has a large shoot me sign on them. And your opponent will do that freely, as everything else in your army is going to be a turn or two farther back.

Kommandos would work better with foot sloggers, but you may have solved your problem by looking at lootas. Lootas can provide a good fire base from the first turn and help provide a nice distraction as your wave slogs across the field.



Sliggoth

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:I play tested to Kommandos and they did what they were supposed to do. They Tied up a unit for a couple rounds and eventually killed it. It wasnt really enough help my slow Kan Wall build though. I need something more. Ill be play testing Storm Boyz as well as 2 full squads of Lootas soon. I think Lootas might actually be my answer. STR 7 is amazing and could pose a real threat to the opponent, espicially when im laying down a good many shots.

There's a few things that you should keep in mind.

Stormboyz, kommandos, Lootas, deffkoptas.....all of these units work very well when you're crafting an army list that uses them efficiently. What you posted here was that you're running a kan-wall, and you want a one-off unit to help your list, but you were narrowing the selection to either kommandos or stormboyz.

Kommandos work very well in either a reserve list (outflanking), a KoS list, or a mechanized list. With Snikrot in tow, they serve to make the enemy edge towards your main force to avoid his wrath, which was his purpose all along. If he kills a unit or contests an objective; fine and dandy, but his primary utility in a list is to make the enemy avoid the table edges.

Stormboyz work well in a foot slogging list, a mechanized list, or a KoS list. In a foot-slogging list, 2-3 units of Kommandos jet forward to take fire and assault the enemy in turn 2, thereby preventing them from firing into your mobs of boyz. In a mechanized list, a unit or two of stormboyz work best tagging along with the vehicles, using them for cover until they're in assault range, at which time they break away and cause ruckus.
=======================

YOU are not running any of those lists. You're running a kan-wall. Therefore, neither of those units fits in very well with your list. If you want effective units that can get in behind enemy ranks and screw with things while you're on your way there, you cannot...you CANNOT go wrong with a unit or two of Deffkoptas. If you get first turn, these guys will scout move up 24" before the game for a turn one shoot and assault against rear armor of a tank....which didn't move and you'll auto-hit, which is scary if you have buzzsaws. If you don't get first turn, you can either scout move them up the field 24" to get a 3+ cover save and present a threat that must be dealt with, or you can outflank them and have them come in from the sides and shoot/assault enemy rear armor.

I have had great success with both units though as alot of people have said, the kommandos are insanly squishy and tend to die alot quicker than the vulcha boyz.

But they both build on my preferred tactic of fear. Every opponent Iv played knows that those units are coming on the board. And when used together, dear lord it gets even better. The enemy will be afraid to venture to far away from their table edge as most people tend to not DS units close to edges. But then they have that any-table-edge-I-want unit also coming down on them. Many mistakes have been made in fear of these two units alone that have won games, even the occasional tournament. Use them to their full potential and dont be afraid to loose some boyz.

Deffkoptas are definitely the way to go if you want to disrupt things and worry about fast units "dancing away" from your ever-encroaching horde. They smack sitting armor and can tie up something for a turn, allowing the boyz to catch up and finish them off.

They can be had cheap, too, thanks to the AoBR box. Plus, they're fun.

I defantly vote deth koptas over both those units.

@ Bad Sheep: I personally took 2 squads of 2 and 1 squad of 1, but if you want to them to work yet remain some what cheap, go 3 squads with 2 koptas per squad. load them out with the twin-linked rokkets, and the buzzsaws and watch them eat tanks. if you you fight a horde army, just move them up to their shooting range, and blow holes in lynch pin units, maybe assault if you have the opening.

If nothing else they can slow down units for a long time useing their hit and run rule.

Wow guys thanks for the replys yet again. Ill def. play test the Koptas as soon as I can. That would prob do the trick and it would give me some anti armor that my list just doesnt have considering the Kans all have grotzookas.

Would Lootas be effective in a Kan wall list? It just seems like they could really mow down units from the whole way accross the board, posing a fairly big threat. Any thoughts?

Thanks again guys.

I use lootas in a kan wall list and they work very well with it. They shoot lots of stuff, and sometimes take more shooting from my enemies than the advancing horde.

I'm also a fan of Snikkrot and kommandos in a kan wall list. They totally mind fark my opponents. Just the fact that orks might be coming in on their six makes my opponents tweak their deployment. Generally spending a lot of manpower to block off the back table edge, or deploy forward a bit.